New Theory on Kopa's birth

New Theory on Kopa's birth


To date, no one has thought of this...


This is one of the most pressing debates on this site, and relating to the Lion King in general.

 

In Disney's original motion picture, the cub shown at the end of the film, ('fluffy' if you will) is later identified as Kopa in the Lion King Six New Adventures, is apparently replaced or displaced by the cub existing in the motion picture sequel, Simba's Pride, Kiara.

 

This falls under the category of 'Two cubs can not occupy the same space'.

 

Disney's position is that fluffy at the end of the original movie is Kiara, but try convincing the fans of that.

 

Many people point out that the birth scene at the end of the first movie is totally different than the one that takes place at the beginning of the second film. I for one, believe this is true.

 

Here is where the everyone else's theories can be left behind. Kopa fans rejoice! Both Kiara and Kopa exist. Just at different times. Many think that due to the order of the two scenes, Kopa was first born, and that because he is not in the second film, he either ran away, or got killed. For my theory to present itself, change one fact. KIARA was first born.

 

Now what are we left with? If Kopa was not in the second film, and was not born first, but definitely does exist, what is deduced? Quite simply, Kopa was born after the events of the second film. Here is my proof.

 

In the scene at the end of the first movie, there is a great gathering of animals. Out numbering the number of animals seen in the second film. Based on the events of the first film, we can assume that most of the animals in the pridelands (under Scar's reign) were either killed or they moved away. And as I saw no evidence that they all had instant email accounts or cell phones with text messaging, there is almost no way such an amount could resettle the pridelands before the accepted time of Simba and Nala's first child- Kiara (evidence being the age relation of Vitani and Kovu plus if you believe the theory that the cub was indeed conceived when Simba and Nala first met in the jungle ;) winkwink).

 

Pause here if you're lost.

 

The only way would be some other form of courier, and a Devine one at that, such as the particles that flew through the lands in the start of the second film - later identified as Mufasa - could have carried it. So directly after Simba took back control of the pridelands, he exiles Zira and the others still loyal to Scar; he kicks out the hyenas; he finds out his new wife is pregnant; The vegetation grows back. etc but it is a big surprise to him that hordes of animals return on the day of Kiara's birth. Who informed them that Scar was gone? Or could they just have instinctively known that the good king had returned? Or could the apparition in the sky witnessing the presentation of the new cub have had something to do with it? I don't know. But the evidence leads me to assume that this event took place closer to the events of the climax of the first film.

 

Take a deep breath in, and let it out.

 

Thus does the turmoil of the second film take place (outlanders, plots and war) Turmoil that is nonexistent in any authentic story of Kopa's childhood. Hinting that if both occurred, the turmoil would have had to been resolved. So it is logical that Kopa's birth took place after the events of the second film.

 

In conclusion, Kopa was real, Kiara was real, Kiara was born first and the events at the very end of the first film are bumped to a much later date, encompassing the entire Lion King story (in the films), and completing the circle of life.

(Scene from the Lion King Two showing Mufasa's ghost and the prideland animals migrating back)Film

 

 

I hope everyone accepts this theory, hope Kopa fans enjoy it. Please take the time to comment.






93748 visits

Report this article Report this article

Last comments

November 03, 2014
Site Booster Usa Female Is not currently on the site
You're one in a minion
Tiger - Um, this article was made about three years ago. No one will answer you, and no one even knew about Kion when this was activated! Please leave older stuff alone if you have any questions about anything. Like I said before, no one's going to answer you.

tiger772
Tiger772
November 03, 2014
Is not currently on the site
what about kion? is he the same lion but with a different name for the tv show or is he the third cub?

Guest
Guest
November 10, 2012
Is not currently on the site
kopa did exist at the end of number 1 and how could it be kiara when in number when kiara had different colours to kopa and stop saying its not kopa or fluffy because it is and in number two nala and simba look older then they did in number 1 so kopa had been killed by zira to get back at simba thats why she was in the outlands in number 2 this is end of this story or theory.

P.S sorry if i sound mean but im not trying being mean.

hi again
Hi again
August 26, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I meant kopa ... freaking auto correct T.T

hi
Hi
August 26, 2012
Is not currently on the site
did Disney really say that scar was killed right after the fight with simba? cuz maybe he was banished with the rest of the lions that, I guess supported him, and died later from natural causes or something. that would explain the fact that kiara and kovu are bout the same age. and that leaves room for oops to have been born and killed, run off, or any other theories people might have... well it was just a thought I wanted to put out there

Abe
Abe
July 27, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I say they Disney should at least re make the movie agine and this time put it to make sense i had watch the two movies. and also i no test that the first lion cub at the end. of the first movie was different then kiara. so the that means that the lion cub at the first movie. was Kopa and then came Kiara. and note st Simba's mom never appeared in the 2 movie. I agree with all you guys. but the lion king fans should arched the desney creater's to make a new one. :cool: :cry2: :cry2: :P

Iluvlionking
Iluvlion
king
July 19, 2012
Is not currently on the site
Sorry to all you Kopa fans, but I really don't believe he exists. Believe what you like.Keep this in mind when you are about to verbally throw me off a cliff into a stampede of wildebeests. (bad scar joke)
NOTICE: MY OPINION; I'M NOT FORCIN' YA TO BELIEVE IT. It's only what I think.
My opinion of why he could not have been born before Kiara:
See, kovu was born before Zira was exiled, right? That had to be because she and her group were loyal to Scar, and that is why she was alwaays complaining about being exiled in the sequel. A lion's mane starts to grow at age 2, which Kovu had.Kopa had the same tuft of mane. It takes a while for the Pride Lands to restore, plus the herds returning. So Kovu had to be about almost a year older then Kopa when he was born. A lion's tail tuft starts to grow at about 7 months, so Kiara had to be at least that old when she met Kovu. Kovu was still a cub, so he had to not be that old. If you include a lionesses's three to four month gestation period, there is simply not a gap in the timeline. Some people say simba looks older in lion king 2, but that is just their opinion. I never really noticed a difference.
NOTICE: This is not originally mine; I found it in article on Fanpop. I just put it in my words and added a few facts. I forget the name of the person who wrote it. But this is what I believe about Kopa.
MY opinion of how he was not born after Kiara;
Simba has saw what happens when there is jealousy and hard feeling between two siblings- splitting of families- even war. And if you are talking about when Kiara is fully grown up, wouldn't Simba and Nala be sorta... shall I say... older? Would they still be able to even have cubs?
NOTICE: this isjust my opinion. Believe what you want to about this topic. I am not saying this is fact. Not trying to start a fight, not trying to stomp on Kopa. sorry if I busted your bubble. (bad Zazu joke)

Kopa_Simba
Kopa_Sim
ba
April 05, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I think Kopa was born first! And I think Tama +Tojo = Vitani, Chumvi + Kula = Kovu and Kopa marryed Vitani! :3

KopaLover
KopaLove
r
March 26, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I totally agree with your theory!

March 23, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I agree this could be a possibility...to me it makes more sense then the killed theory...and also because between the time in the first lion king and 2nd,...from things they said in the movies much.time hadnt gone by(zira stating kovu was hand picked by scar to take over, etc,) means there obviously wasnt enough time to produce another baby and so forth thats close in age with kovu. My honest opinion after seeing the books and reading is the cub at the time in the 1st movie wasnt maybe meant to be kiara at the time, but after the huge success of the movie that was to become a girl for the sake of a good conclusion and story not the same as the first. People talk about the markings on the ears being black, the color difference,.presentation etc, not matching. As for the ears, simba no longer had the black as an adult, and the babies strike a resemblance but the 2nd movie clearly had a lower budget and wasnt animated as well as the first but its obvious that baby later was meant to be kiara. I struggle with the fact simba and nala had another baby after kiara was grown because of their age at the time(being sarabi disappeared of likely old age shortly after kiara was born) but then again who.knows its possible!!! I wish disney would add another movie including kopa(rather than kiara and kovu and a baby) because in those books he did exist, and he does on wikipedia!lol itd be good for simba to have a son like him especially since kiara wasnt interested in ruling :) but this is my opinion...make another movie disney!!!lol

January 28, 2012
Global Moderator Usa Female Is not currently on the site
TLKlover -- I highly doubt it. The 'Circle of Life' ended with the second film, so to avoid an ending like in the first film Simba's Pride's creators had the whole thing end with the second film. So, the odds of them making another one may not be possible.

January 28, 2012
Usa Is not currently on the site
idk i kopa was born second :o . but this article brings up alot o good points, but why would they have it at:o the end o the first one? do you think they will make a new movie?

September 30, 2011
Global Moderator Usa Female Is not currently on the site
This is what happens when people who make sequels don't follow the ways of the original movie, let alone the animation. You get problems like this...

Regardless of the fact that the cub at the end of The Lion King was blended together with the cub at the start of Simba's Pride... Sorry there's no logic in that. The cub at the end of the first could be a boy or a girl. If a boy, hey, that's cool. But if it's a girl... to say it's Kiara... *shrugs* Really, guys? Come on!

Okay, Kopa could, COULD have been born second.

But the reality is, we don't know.

Mufasa
Mufasa
September 30, 2011
Is not currently on the site
but they kept saying kopa is first born and i believe he was first born:p

He Lives inMe
He Lives
inMe
September 29, 2011
Is not currently on the site
Simba told Kiara that she would be queen one day; this was only because, as a father, he had to assume that there would not be a male heir coming anytime soon. He had to work with what he had, so to speak. If Kiara was Simba’s only heir, then the odds are she would have been mated to another lion who would then take Simba’s place…not an ideal situation for a pride with traditions as old as time. But if there was an heir, that heir would have the right to be the next king. Needless to say, Kiara never wanted to be queen anyway and Kovu just doesn't seem like the "ruler" type. I assume that they wanted to move on and start a new pride (prides usually only consist of one male lion at a time, unless it is the old dad of the young male still hanging around). I’m a girl, so I’m not dissing female power. It’s just that this is the way things were for the pride. You can’t go about changing the ways and traditions of lions.

Very well thought out conclusion. You definitely are getting somewhere with this. I believe it’s true, because all things that are both Disney and Lion King have to be canon and exist in the same universe. Disney labels are NOT just thrown around. They are given very carefully. Kopa and Kiara are definitely siblings, and I bet as future king, Kopa has wonderful role model in his big sister. :)

HeLives in Me
HeLives
in Me
September 29, 2011
Is not currently on the site
I honestly agree with your statement of "completing the circle of life" with Kopa's birth. That’s why I believe it was him being born at the end of TLK thus completing the circle of life and ending the movie almost as it began: with the birth of a king. He was the first boy born to Simba and Nala. It was a very significant moment for every living thing in Simba’s kingdom. This is why so many animals came to his presentation (that and the fact that the herds had returned and recovered after the end of SP). As much as I hate to say it, a boy's birth in Africa (at LEAST among the lions) is far more significant than a girl's. The movie is called The Lion KING. The entire story focuses on the father lion raising his SON to be a great king some day. Not to mention, as far back in TLK history that we know of, the king of the Pridelands always had a son who carried on for him. The daughters were never talked about. And I am sure that Kiara was not the only girl born to past kings of the Pridelands. My theory is that each Lion King eventually has a boy, and even if he is younger, he has the birth right to become the next ruler. (sorry part 3 coming up :P)

HeLivesinMe
HeLivesi
nMe
September 29, 2011
Is not currently on the site
Wow! When I read your article I totally understood your point! Kiara was obviously his first child. I agree that Kiara was born first, and Kopa was born after the events of SP. But I do believe, however, that it was Kopa born at the end of The Lion King, for many reasons. Kopa was born at the end for symbolism and a sense of completion to the circle of life, not because he was older than Kiara. Let's look at the simple statistics. When Kiara was born, there weren't all that many animals to welcome her into the world. The fact was the herds had moved on and the land was only beginning to recover. Not that many animals would return so quickly. Even the different presentations aroused suspicion. Kiara and Kopa look too different to be the same cub. I understand things like slight variations in fur color, eyes, and expressions, but after watching the two presentation scenes, things just don’t check out. Kiara is chubby, with pale tan with completely different eyes than “Fluffy” while “Fluffy” had yellow-orange fur with black rings around his ears. As for personality, Kiara was giggly and playful, batting and growling at the crowd. “Fluffy” was quiet and bewildered. Even the presentation ceremonies had very distinct variations such as timing, the absence of Timon and Pumbaa for most of the ceremony, the presence of Mufasa, etc. Watch, compare, and determine for yourself.

And about the "Zira killed/exiled Kopa" theories. I would like to point out for that TLK is a DISNEY film. Even if you jumped out of the TLK universe for a minute, putting Disney on the spot for killing a baby is just illogical. Disney would never even suggest murdering a cub in a movie. So it's safe to say for even the non-believers that Kopa's existence wasn't cut short at childhood. (sorry, I have to complete my response in another comment).

Kenna
Kenna
July 20, 2011
Is not currently on the site
I agree with you! I always thought Kopa was born after Kiara. The 'Zira killed him theory' is very plausible, but then it would make no sense that Kovu and Kiara are around the same age. As for where Kiara and Kovu are in the books... well, they're grown lions, they don't want to be stuck with their parents (or in-laws), it's logical to assume they've gone off to start their own pride.
As for the inconsistencies between the two 'birth scenes'; that doesn't really account for anything. A long time passed between the production of the two films. I think the cub at the end of TLK was Kiara. 6NA took place in a far lusher, safer Pride Lands, indicating that Zira's Pride didn't exist and a long time had passed since Scar's rule.

May 03, 2011
Brazil Is not currently on the site
I always believed that Kopa was just a happy ending for TLK was not anything that existed even Kopa, I mean he existed, but only at the end of TLK, suppose that after the time of the present Rafiki Rafiki left the puppy and fall died, and Simba and Nala did other girl but safely? Ok, this is idiotic theories. Anyway for me Kopa is very cute, a great puppy but he was never the original basis of TLK. I believed that Disney may have added Kopa maybe then, but turned into the son of Zira, painted it and gave it the name of Kovu. You can see that Kovu and Kopa is almost like the changes so VU AND PA. For the initial non-K, with KO and the same name is 4 letters. Well, I always believed in that comment now that Disney may have even Kopa in SP but as TLK Kovu.

April 27, 2011
Is not currently on the site
This is what I've said for almost two years or so. That the only at all logical way to connect Kopa to the TLK+SP timeline is to have Kopa born after SP's events.

BUT your article seems to be forgetting two quite essential points:

The TLK6NA books do not mention Kiara and Kovu whatsoever, not to mention explain why they suddenly are not the future rulers of Pridelands but Kopa is. And ignoring that would be weird. Really, really weird if the stories were supposed to connect.

Also, your "the first male cub and thus the first significant birth" theory contradicts the SP film content. Simba makes very clear in SP that Kiara would be the one to take his place as the ruler and thus Kiara's birth most certainly was as significant as any royal cub's and would've been shown at the end of TLK (and officially was.)

Resulting in that Kopa can not be COMPLETELY logically connected to the movie universe because he was never meant to be part of it. ^^

March 10, 2010
Canada Is not currently on the site
Cobaltié: One of the backbones in the theory is that there is no mention of Kopa in the Lion King II, as he is born after those events had resolved...°x° although it is true that the first movie and the second movie do not actually overlap, it is a fun idea.

March 10, 2010
Australia Female Is not currently on the site
no u
It doesn't make sense for the end of TLK and start of TLK2 to overlap, although your theory does have some points to it. Plus, TLK2 makes no mention of Kopa at all, not even a cameo, so that doesn't make sense either with your theory.

January 19, 2010
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
Harry Potter FTW
love the theory, but i'm still gonna stick to my (and others) opinion that zira killed him to get that out of the way for making kovu king.

December 28, 2009
Usa Is not currently on the site
Hi,

This is a great theory! I think it makes a lot of sense and erases the whole horrible concept of Kopa being killed by Zira or the like. I do not believe that is a good thought to hold in your mind, besides the fact that it's simply not logical. I mean, if Kopa was the firstborn, then why did Simba not seem sad in TLK2? And why didn't they ever mention him in it? It wouldn't make any sense at all. Also, I have read numerous copies of TLK books, and it says in each one that Kiara was born at the end of The Lion King, not Kopa.

Thank you for sharing this theory with everyone. I think we all believe that this is the correct concept of Kopa's birth.

December 15, 2009
Greece Female Is not currently on the site
None
I have the same theory too, but with a different reason: The Outsiders are nowhere to be found in the books. Kovu and Kiara probably started their own pride, since neither of them were carable of becoming king and queen, or so I think. (Kiara doesn't want to be queen, and Kovu doesn't know about that blah blah) This is a pretty good theory. I was confused for a moment, but still. What doesn't make sense through, is why nobody mentions the Outsiders and Kiara in the books. :!

December 08, 2009
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
WQ > Balto > WoC
Hmm, that is an interesting theory.

I do believe that both Kiara and Kopa existed at the same time, but I'm obviously a fan of the "Kopa was born first" crowd of theorists. You make a good point about the number of animals present at the end of the first movie (where "Fluffy"/Kopa is presented to the animals) compared to those in the beginning of SP when Kiara is presented. Yet now that I think about it . . . your theory makes sense. Kiara has to have been born first because of Simba's rather . . . er, obvious overprotection of his daughter. Naturally in sequels, the daughters seems to be more protected than sons . . . and I've read the 6NA series, so I know Kopa isn't as protected as Kiara was in SP.

Still, good theory and great article! I'm surprised I hadn't read this sooner!

December 04, 2009
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
Anti-BaltoSource
I for one even tho i love kopa go with the theme he was never ment to exsist °x° and Zira didn't kill him its a nice theory tho, the thing is disney screwed up made two cubs and then threw one out, Kopa doesn;t exsit anymore they replaced him with Kiara, for the sake of the films the old books are dead to siney now so the focused more on the movies. here are some links that i think may help.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_zira_kill_kopa_in_the_lion_king_books

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090211114052AAgwaWz< br />

November 21, 2009
Switzerland Female Is not currently on the site
Anastasia Admin
Beth: No it's not. They tried to erase Kopa's information. When they made Kiara.

I still think Kopa was born before Kiara, because of the books, that were made before TLK2.
Great article, has lots of information.

November 15, 2009
Is not currently on the site
Kopa was born and about at a month old he got killed by zira its a proven fact

November 13, 2009
Is not currently on the site
...can we say that this have been disproven by books produced under the Lion King before Lion King 2 ever existed.

In the childbook distributed after the movie (like all Disney classics of the time), at the end, the claimed the cub to be a boy. Followed by that book later came The Lion King: Six New Adventures, which starred Kopa. Since the last book claimed it was a son, Kopa was Simba's cub of The Six New Adventures showing the history of fellow TLK characters. All of this was made before Lion King 2 was ever thought about dissproving that Kopa was the second cub.

It's more logical to have his birth before Kiara, which would explain Simba's excessive protective parternal instincts with Kiara. Another disaster had to occur before Kiara for Rafiki to say "the circle of life is restored again," during TLK 2. This heightened the possibility of hints towards Kopa's possible death for fans. Zazu called the Outsiders "murderous" in TLK 2 when Kiara first came encounter with one Kovu. I doubt they would call them murderous for killing fellow animals, since lions...need to eat. It may be considered murder if a lion killed a fellow lion like what Scar did to Mufasa, which was highly frowned upon along with the fact that he lied and was the worse king ever.

Yes there are differences in cubs' pelt color, but it's clear that Disney company made mistakes like how Simba's nose is noticeably pink in the 2nd film and Sarabi with different eye color and so on.

In short, within the eye of the beholder, Kopa can exist, but with subtle hints in the film it have to be before Kiara's birth making her the second cub.

Previous

Previous
1 2



Not connected : To be able to post a message site, you must be connected.

Register on the site!

The Lion King reads and more


Site activity




Français   English

RSS      Bookmark the site      Privacy policy      34 visitors connected

Generated in 0.418 seconds

To give you the best experience, this site uses cookies. By continuing, you're giving consent to cookies being used. Learn more... Close X