Does Simba's Pride really have plot holes?

Does Simba's Pride really have plot holes?

I don't think so. This is my attempt to disprove the claimed plot holes.

Now, I'm not saying this film doesn't have some problems. Because it does. I'm only saying that I don't think it has plot holes. Most of the following arguments I originally posted at IMDB message board in a debate, as VampireOutlaw.

You see, if something that's left untold does not affect the plot at all, then it's not a hole in the story but only something that could be further explained just for the interest of it.

I'm starting to think this film does not have plot holes at all - that its only continuity problem is that they remade the ceremony scene and the cub's design.

I think I can disprove the claimed plot holes:

"Kiara looks entirely different from the cub at the end of TLK, and the ceremonies are also obviously different. What happened to the other cub?"

There is no other cub; on the first film's commentary track, that ending cub was refered to as "Fluffy" with no decided gender, and then in this film's official trailer they used "Fluffy" as baby Kiara, and in a magazine interview confirmed that "Fluffy" and Kiara are the same character. So in fact this is not a plot hole but a visual continuity problem.

Is it a plot hole because the film itself doesn't literally say that "Fluffy" and Kiara are one? I don't think so, because this film doesn't make any reference to any other cub but Kiara, therefore she and "Fluffy" unavoidably blend into one. On the contrary, if they were supposed to be two different cubs, this entire movie would be one huge plot hole.

But as Simba and Nala had only one child in the movie universe storyline, the stupid visual difference remains only a visual paradox, not a plot hole.

"How does Nala know Vitani?"

Remember that Vitani was born during Scar's reign which the first movie skipped over. And as Kovu was the last born and hand-chosen by Scar, it's likely Vitani and Kovu were older than new-borns before the end.

Therefore it is entirely possible, perhaps even likely seeing to that Nala knows Vitani, that Nala met Vitani before she left to find help and ran into Simba. She may have met Vitani also as Vitani left to exile with her family - after all Nala was the queen.

So, after all this isn't a plot hole any more than the exile is. The indicated event just happened during a time period even the first film skipped over while the sequel chose to start off where the first film left us.

The important thing is that the sequel confirms that both Nala and Vitani were in the Pridelands during that skipped-over time period. That confirmation keeps the later indication of them having met from being an actual plot hole, and makes it nothing more but a not-specifically explained situation.

"Where was Zira in the original?"

The sequel implies that she and the otehrs were supposed to be in the Pridelands at that time, and their total lack of screen time in the first film IS supported by its content. Remember how Simba told Nala to rally up the lionesses? Well, obviously Nala didn't rally up all of them and the sequel makes it clear why, by having those that weren't raalied up, obviously siding with Scar. It's not like the good guys didn't have enough challenge in dealing with the huge hyena pack that still sided with Scar.

This results in the films' contents combined explaining that they were in Pridelands but weren't called upon at Simba's return because they would've made the enemy that much more powerful. Where in Pridelands they were exactly, isn't important. Therefore, not a plot hole but only a not-throroughly explained situation.

"Where did the Outsiders come from? There was no mention in the first movie at all about ANY lionesses who favored Scars' opinion...and I think this is the biggest plot hole of them all. No lionesses that followed Scar. So where did they come from?"

Remember the films are supposed to form one entity. So the first mention coming in the sequel's half of that one entity, does work, because the first half doesn't deny this matter nor make it impossible. Hence, them not appearing in the first half of the entity is explained by the content, and them still supporting Scar is explained by the fact that so did the hyenas.

The fact that they didn't show how Simba met the to-be-Outlanders, isn't a plot hole eiteher because it happened during the time even the first film skipped over and the sequel chose to start off where the first film left us.

How did the Outlanders first come to the Pridelands? They aren't seen in the first film at any point.

This detail does not affect the sequel's plot nor their role in it in any way. All that matters to it is that they sided with Scar or were believed to through prejudice. Their origin prior to Pridelands era is only a matter of interest, therefore not a plot hole.

"Who was Kovu's father?"

Not a plot hole because Kovu's father's identity is completely irrelevant. We are told that it isn't Scar but that Scar adopted him as his heir, that's all the plot needs in order for the viewer to understand his character as well as Nuka and Simba and the story.

"If Kovu's father's identity is irrelevant, then how did Zira end up with him? I mean, she had two able cubs of her own."

Or one. Vitani may well be Kovu's litter mate. Actually, it's entirely possible all Zira's cubs were from the same father. After all we don't know anything about their timeline in Pridelands except that Kovu was the last born.

Anyway, how did Zira end up with Kovu's father is naturally irrelevant too, by his father's identity being irrelevant. It just doesn't matter to the story SP wants to tell. All the story needs to work perfectly logically is the information of how does Kovu relate to the first film's events, is he Scar's kid or not, and what is his purpose in the sequel. And that information is given in the film.

Do not bother coming to argue the topic of Kovu's parentage with the Darrell Rooney Facebook post. That post is not factual information so long as it isn't confirmed on an official site. Just because FB staff bans people who impersonate famous people, if revealed, doesn't mean people aren't doing it. A ban is hardly a threat enough to stop such practice, as one can easily create a new account from another computer. And even if that post proved to be genuine, the man said "was" and "if I remember correctly", making the matter only that Kovu may have been at one point intented as an orphan. But as for now, there's nothing official on that whatsoever. Therefore, officially, Kovu has never been described as an orphan and Zira is Kovu's biological mother.

So, Kovu's parentage stuff doesn't create any plot holes and there are no official answers to the open matters.

"How could he have been hand chosen by Scar?"

"Kovu was the last born before you exiled us to the Outlands" "He was hand-chosen by Scar to follow in his paw prints and become king" = clearly setting Kovu's birth to a time before Simba returned and Scar was still alive. Naturally Kovu'd have to be older than Kiara, but hey, the film never said he isn't. The fact that he appears the same age as Kiara, doesn't mean that he was.
So I see absolutely no quesion as for how Scar could've hand-chosen him.

"Why was he hand chosen by Scar?"

Why do people choose anything? Because they feel the person/thing is worthy of the thing they're chosen for. Any more detailed reason is not significant to the story. I really don't know why this should be a question. Especially as the first film doesn't make any reference to Scar having or even planning to have biological children. So, keeping in mind that first point I made, him choosing someone else's kid as his heir really doesn't need to be a question.

"Where is Sarabi?"

Sarabi would become a plot hole only if they'd said that she is not somerhere in there but not tell why. So this is not a plot hole, as just because she isn't mentioned, doesn't mean that she wasn't around. Obviously there was no need for her in the story SP wanted to tell, they may have left her into the background and not bother pointing her out.

"Why did Simba choose a daughter to rule the pridelands when traditionally it's always been male?"

Nothing in the first film ever said that a male is a tradition for s ruler. All the film says is that the great kings of the past are watching from the stars. All the film shows about traditions, is that it's the first born. And even if it had labeled male as a tradition, it has an entire song sequence about Simba planning to do everything his way once he'd be the king. And just before that song he said about anoteher tradition: "When I'm king, that'll be the first thing to go."

Hence, hence, not a plot hole.

* * * * *

Anything else? Feel free to throw potential plot holes at me. I'd like to try and disprove them. :D Because it's fun as it is, and I think this sequel is underrated.  ;)

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June 22, 2019
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@ S0r3n,

"I strongly disagree. It's not just a visual paradox. The entire ceremony is different. Also, it implies that Mufasa is always in the clouds rather than appearing only to Simba when he needed him."

Well, perhaps it can also be defined retroactive continuity but because the characters and the event are nontheless the same it barely counts as such and certainly isn't a plot hole. It might be if the film makers never addressed the cub in the first film, but they did. They had the trailer's makers use that cub in it instead of their redesign and in a magazine interview one of the animators stated that the first film's cub is Kiara.

And Mufasa wasn't able to show up when Simba needed him. Otherwise he would have shown up immediately after his death. Mufasa was able to appear because Rafiki summoned him after learning Simba is alive. Naturally Rafiki would be able to summon him again and would do so for him to attend his granddaughter's blessing/presentation ceremony ceremony as well as her marriage/the reunion of the pride.

"You claim it's not a plot hole but you could not be more wrong. Obviously Nala rallied all the Lionesses present. Zira did not exist among them!"

And what exactly makes it obvious that she rallied everyone? The film never stated so. To me it's rather obvious that Nala wouldn't call upon anyone who sides with Scar but only those who would help Simba.

" Nope, it's a plot-hole. It doesn't work. Saying they were in the Pride Lands but simply weren't called upon? That makes literally no sense, story-wise! That does not remove the plot-hole, that is an excuse to justify it."

Where's your common sense? Why oh why would Nala rally up lioness' who would attack Simba? Your argument is the one that doesn't make sense story-wise.

" He is a plot hole because his age is inconsistent. There's no reason he and Kiara should be the same age."

They're not the same age. Kovu was hand-chosen by Scar so Kovu was born before Simba returned. A lion carries a cub for some four months so Kovu is at least four months older than Kiara, most likely even five or six months older assuming Scar waited for a few weeks before deciding and that Nala wasn't pregnant when Simba reclaimed the throne and perhaps waited a while before mating. Four to six months is a remarkable age difference in lion aging. It reflects in the voice actors: cub Kiara was voiced by a 10-year old whilst cub Kovu was voiced by a 13-year old. Plus, Kovu has tufts of hair on his head and elbows indicating that he's in his early teens whereas Kiara at that point still sounded and acted like a little girl. These facts make the older Kiara around 2,5 years old (approx. 16 in human years) and the older Kovu around 3 years old (approx. 18 or 19 in human years.)

There are no plot holes.

January 07, 2019
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"Viusal Paradox"

I strongly disagree. It's not just a visual paradox. The entire ceremony is different. Also, it implies that Mufasa is always in the clouds rather than appearing only to Simba when he needed him.


You claim it's not a plot hole but you could not be more wrong. Obviously Nala rallied all the Lionesses present. Zira did not exist among them!

"Therefore, not a plot hole but only a not-throroughly explained situation."
Nope, it's a plot-hole. It doesn't work. Saying they were in the Pride Lands but simply weren't called upon? That makes literally no sense, story-wise! That does not remove the plot-hole, that is an excuse to justify it.

He is a plot hole because his age is inconsistent. There's no reason he and Kiara should be the same age.

Anyway, point is, there were plot holes. No point in denying it.

Things don't add, ergo they are plot holes.

October 06, 2013
Usa Is not currently on the site
The only major plot hole is that people expect things from movie 2 to be in movie 1 and that their hunger for background information wasn't satisfied. Did people forget that movie 1 was made to be a stand-alone movie... that it wasn't even expected to do that well? I understand the fandom's thirst for more information, but that's the fun of creating back stories and whatnot, given that they are not pushed off as canon when in fact such things simply don't exist. Whenever I see in a debate about what is canon the words "I believe" then that is a fan who is not using facts.

Movie 2 is simply there to expand on the story after Simba had returned and completed his circle of life. He came back and created the next generation (fluffy), thus life will continue after he is gone. It irritates me to no end to see people argue over the identity of Fluffy. They nitpick at every little detail. By the creators of the sequel using the footage of Fluffy as the beginning of the trailer of movie 2 is them saying hey, here's the cub at the end, this is its story! The presentation is obvious enough. They're not going to reuse footage and show Fluffy/Kiara's presentation once more. they want it to be fresh for the fans.

June 19, 2013
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I know three answers:

1When Scar was a king he had cubs from the lionesses. The lionesses don't really loved their cubs because of that they wanted to leave with Zira.

2Sarabi's voice actor died.

3Usually the first cub who is born rules. Kiara was born alone. If Kiara had a twin. Then Simba can choose one of the cubs(they usually choose the male).

January 27, 2013
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Great article!
I do think you get a glimpse of Sarabi in the second film, after Kiara tells Simba he'll never be Mufasa and runs into the rock (she runs past a shocked-looking lioness that I believe resembles Sarabi).
I thought the lioness that said "My, Kiara, how you've grown" looked like Sarafina and sounded like her.

November 18, 2012
Uk Is not currently on the site
Thank you ,and yes I was nit picking to get my point.:icon106: :icon29:
Yes, I probably got the Sarabi thing wrong, but have you noticed all the pride look identical? Ah well thank you for your point of view. :P

November 13, 2012
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@ SarabiMirage123:

Yep, many agree that the animation in TLK2 is sloppy. Although I think you were kind of nit-picking on it. ;)

I doubt they meant that lioness to be anyone from the first film. Because they didn't point it out. Why give one line to a canon character without saying that it's the character? I really think it was just a random member of the pride. Especially as it doesn't really look anything like Sarabi or even Sarafina. I mean, yes all the characters look different than in the first film, but at least they're recognizable. :D

November 03, 2012
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Oh, and by the way, if you look closely, I think the designers tried to make Sarabi as one of the lionesses who says "My Kiara how you've grown" I know, she doesn't look like Sarabi - and I'm Sarabi's No1 fan!

November 03, 2012
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Many people disagree with me, and let them because it is there opinion, but I think TLK2 is not as good and TLK. All these questions are thought through well, but it does have mistakes. Here are three I have noticed
1. If Zira hit Kovu at that angle, the scar would be diagonal, not straight. :o
2. Why does Vitani suddenly change body shape and her eyes go ever so slightly green in one scene?
3. Nala's uppere eye lid colour changes in one scene.
Sorry to spoil the part, guys. But I do agree TLK2 is a touching and inspirirng movie. Though not as inspiring at the first one.
9The first one I always sob my heart out at Mufasa's death and when Simba roars at the end. TLK2 the closest I get to crying is when Mufasa says at the end We are One.)
P.S Please don't abuse me for spoiling TLK2 or ruining someone's point of view. Just had to say it!

August 09, 2012
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Big Bad Mod
Great article. Clear and sensible.

August 04, 2012
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What part of this article is critisizing anyone? o.O

As for your question, the answer is; Or something.

August 04, 2012
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That was straight-to-the-point! But you can't really citisise us - it's an easy mistake to make. Do you work in the studios or something?

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