Animation Source Forums

=> Visit the Animation Source fansites!

Read the site rules!

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:28 pm 
Offline
Animation Source is my home!
Animation Source is my home!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:35 pm
Posts: 3673
Gender: Male



Mulling over the plot of Zootopia, something occurred to me. Bellweather's claim that she "framed Lionheart" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since by all appearances Lionheart did, in fact, secretly incarcerate the animals effected by the Nighthowler darts - or did he?

This is just a theory, and it might work better as an article (though I'd like to get the thoughts of some of this site's more insightful members before I took that step), but here's what I think may have happened:

Bellwether realized that the initial cases would cause a frenzy of investigation and media coverage: pretty risky for her as the one pulling the strings. Instead, she arranged for the first couple of victims to be darted, subdued, and locked up without anyone knowing what had happened (which explains how, when Lionheart's guys did respond later, they were able to do it so quickly and efficiently, and how the early cases were suppressed before word got out). Then, once the whole scheme was underway, she informed Lionheart or arranged for him to be informed of what was going on, leaving him (as the saying goes) "holding a wolf by the ears." Since he had so little of an idea of what was going on, he more or less panicked and did just what she'd hoped he'd do: took over the cover-up, but kept it running as it had been running - in other words, just the way Bellwether wanted it. From there it was just a matter of time until one of the cops investigating the cases stumbled on the victims, leaving Lionheart to take the blame. Even if he knew Bellwether had started it, it would be hard for him to sell that to the press and the police, whereas she could very easily make it look like he was just using her as a convenient scapegoat if he tried.

This would also explain the follow-up comic (if it exists; so far I only have rumors) which suggests that Lionheart was reinstated as mayor, as well as why for the rest of the movie he seemed like such a nice guy - well, except to Bellwether.

Any thoughts?

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sig and userbars created by Bastet :spiderman:
Body piercing saved my life
my-book-t30672.html Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:23 pm 
Offline
Supervisor
Supervisor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 4881
Location: Michigan
Gender: Female
Jake Razor wrote:
Mulling over the plot of Zootopia, something occurred to me. Bellweather's claim that she "framed Lionheart" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since by all appearances Lionheart did, in fact, secretly incarcerate the animals effected by the Nighthowler darts - or did he?

This is just a theory, and it might work better as an article (though I'd like to get the thoughts of some of this site's more insightful members before I took that step), but here's what I think may have happened:

Bellwether realized that the initial cases would cause a frenzy of investigation and media coverage: pretty risky for her as the one pulling the strings. Instead, she arranged for the first couple of victims to be darted, subdued, and locked up without anyone knowing what had happened (which explains how, when Lionheart's guys did respond later, they were able to do it so quickly and efficiently, and how the early cases were suppressed before word got out). Then, once the whole scheme was underway, she informed Lionheart or arranged for him to be informed of what was going on, leaving him (as the saying goes) "holding a wolf by the ears." Since he had so little of an idea of what was going on, he more or less panicked and did just what she'd hoped he'd do: took over the cover-up, but kept it running as it had been running - in other words, just the way Bellwether wanted it. From there it was just a matter of time until one of the cops investigating the cases stumbled on the victims, leaving Lionheart to take the blame. Even if he knew Bellwether had started it, it would be hard for him to sell that to the press and the police, whereas she could very easily make it look like he was just using her as a convenient scapegoat if he tried.

This would also explain the follow-up comic (if it exists; so far I only have rumors) which suggests that Lionheart was reinstated as mayor, as well as why for the rest of the movie he seemed like such a nice guy - well, except to Bellwether.

Any thoughts?


This is a area in the film which I've found to be confusing as well, but here's my interpretation on the matter:

Is Lionheart a good guy? I would say yes, but he didn't make the best decisions. At the end of the film, when he's being interviewed, he admits to falsely imprisoning the infected animals, however he denies having any knowledge about Bellwether's plot. And whether or not this can be related, perhaps it was Lionhearts mistreatment towards Bellwether that lead her to wanting to eliminate (because she mentions feeling under estimated and underappreciated) the predators.

As for how Lionheart has any involvement with the animals is fuzzy to me. But I think you may be right with your analysis. Bellwether likely played the innocent card and lied to Lionheart to get him involved, then made him look like he's the one behind everything.

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:22 am 
Offline
Animation Source is my home!
Animation Source is my home!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:35 pm
Posts: 3673
Gender: Male
Yeah, I think Lionheart did come across much more as a good guy who made a major bad decision. I also agree that he probably did play a part, if unwittingly, in Bellwether's attitude toward predators, though I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that he was just the straw that broke the camel's (or sheep's) back. Though I doubt it will ever be covered, I find it easy to imagine that she had a lot of baggage he knew nothing about which made things like the nickname much more impacting than he would have imagined.

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sig and userbars created by Bastet :spiderman:
Body piercing saved my life
my-book-t30672.html Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 7:25 am
Jake Razor wrote:
Mulling over the plot of Zootopia, something occurred to me. Bellweather's claim that she "framed Lionheart" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since by all appearances Lionheart did, in fact, secretly incarcerate the animals effected by the Nighthowler darts - or did he?

This is just a theory, and it might work better as an article (though I'd like to get the thoughts of some of this site's more insightful members before I took that step), but here's what I think may have happened:

Bellwether realized that the initial cases would cause a frenzy of investigation and media coverage: pretty risky for her as the one pulling the strings. Instead, she arranged for the first couple of victims to be darted, subdued, and locked up without anyone knowing what had happened (which explains how, when Lionheart's guys did respond later, they were able to do it so quickly and efficiently, and how the early cases were suppressed before word got out). Then, once the whole scheme was underway, she informed Lionheart or arranged for him to be informed of what was going on, leaving him (as the saying goes) "holding a wolf by the ears." Since he had so little of an idea of what was going on, he more or less panicked and did just what she'd hoped he'd do: took over the cover-up, but kept it running as it had been running - in other words, just the way Bellwether wanted it. From there it was just a matter of time until one of the cops investigating the cases stumbled on the victims, leaving Lionheart to take the blame. Even if he knew Bellwether had started it, it would be hard for him to sell that to the press and the police, whereas she could very easily make it look like he was just using her as a convenient scapegoat if he tried.

This would also explain the follow-up comic (if it exists; so far I only have rumors) which suggests that Lionheart was reinstated as mayor, as well as why for the rest of the movie he seemed like such a nice guy - well, except to Bellwether.

Any thoughts?


This whole thing about the conspiracy has been bothering me a lot recently. This would explain some of it although I still don't get how the police knew about the 14 missing mammal cases but didn't know anything about predators going 'savage'. Bogo said that city hall was right up his tail to find them but why would this be the case if the mayor was behind the disappearances and trying to cover it up?

The other thing that was a little confusing was how Mr Manchas was targeted exactly when Nick and Judy visited him, maybe bellwether was following them and wanted to lead them to the asylum but how would she have done this? There's also the chance of it going horribly wrong if Manchas killed them!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:43 pm 
Offline
Animation Source is my home!
Animation Source is my home!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:35 pm
Posts: 3673
Gender: Male
Kaonashi wrote:
This whole thing about the conspiracy has been bothering me a lot recently. This would explain some of it although I still don't get how the police knew about the 14 missing mammal cases but didn't know anything about predators going 'savage'. Bogo said that city hall was right up his tail to find them but why would this be the case if the mayor was behind the disappearances and trying to cover it up?

The other thing that was a little confusing was how Mr Manchas was targeted exactly when Nick and Judy visited him, maybe bellwether was following them and wanted to lead them to the asylum but how would she have done this? There's also the chance of it going horribly wrong if Manchas killed them!

Well, as I said, if Bellwether knew where and when the preds were going to lose it, then she could have the mercs already in place to nab them. Maybe she was planning to release them at some later date; maybe not.

As for city hall being right up his tail, there's more to city hall than just the mayor, and only so much a mayor can do to keep things quiet - especially when concerned families are calling nonstop, as they likely would be in situations like that.

It's safe to assume that Manchas' attack was meant for Nick and Judy to see. If they (or Judy, since they likely weren't planning on Nick's involvement) escaped and followed the lead back to the source, boom. Lionheart would take the blame. If not, that much more to blame on him when someone else finally found out. The scheme was, in essence, a time bomb.

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sig and userbars created by Bastet :spiderman:
Body piercing saved my life
my-book-t30672.html Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 pm
Lionheart to me made a pre-emptive strike to try and avoid what eventually manifested itself after Judy and Nick broke things wide open with the mayor's arrest. Judy of course makes things worse when she harkens back to her part in the cub's play at the country fair by saying the predators were reverting back to their "biological (pre-historic/cave man) dispositions"

This very much runs the same as the act signed by FDR after Pearl Harbor in 1941 that sent Japanese Americans to holding centers away from the West and East coasts of America.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What did Bellwether mean by, "I Framed Lionheart"?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:46 pm 
Offline
Animation Source is my home!
Animation Source is my home!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:35 pm
Posts: 3673
Gender: Male



dan1966 wrote:
Lionheart to me made a pre-emptive strike to try and avoid what eventually manifested itself after Judy and Nick broke things wide open with the mayor's arrest. Judy of course makes things worse when she harkens back to her part in the cub's play at the country fair by saying the predators were reverting back to their "biological (pre-historic/cave man) dispositions"

This very much runs the same as the act signed by FDR after Pearl Harbor in 1941 that sent Japanese Americans to holding centers away from the West and East coasts of America.


Lionheart's actions are sure to be debated. I'm just asking whether Bellwether's remark about framing him was a nod to setting him up with that predicament.

_________________
Image
Image
Image
Sig and userbars created by Bastet :spiderman:
Body piercing saved my life
my-book-t30672.html Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2008 phpBB Group