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 Post subject: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:36 pm 
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Maybe it's just me, and I'm weird haha, but I'm not one that 'ships' or pairs them together romantically for some reason. Good friends sure, best friends even, but I don't exactly know why I don't see them as being romantic partners. Not that I mind them being paired of course, nothing wrong with it at all. It's just my own personal preference I suppose, how I see their relationship. There are different kinds of love after all. 83

How do you see them relationship wise?


Note: Please don't just put a lazy answer with little to no thought, like 'I ship them' with no explanation, or 'I agree'. It can not only be considered spam, but I find it annoying since I'm trying to engage members here. I have the right and power to delete any such posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:41 pm 
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i ship them - Don't kill me XD

I think the whole idea of shipping the two together muddies up their friendship. And while I'm not out to offend anyone, I do think a lot of these people are blind to the fact that there are different types of love. Not all of it is romantic, like you said.

As for their friendship, I think they did a "Flash: one-hundred yard dash" move lol. But they do appear to be good friends, if not close. And if they hadn't been, the story wouldn't have had moved forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:23 pm 
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I could see them as having tried a relationship, but felt it would be better if they remained friends. Basically, I can see it as both. That's just me, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:37 pm 
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I have a feeling this is going to be, if you'll excuse the pun, "the elephant in the room". lol

People will be talking about this one until the sun goes dark. And there will be all manner of extremes on this, and everything in between. In fact, I think the question may have actually been discussed in official circles.

They're two different species, incapable of interbreeding. That's why you don't see couples of two different mammal species together in the movie. Whenever you do see a couple (married or otherwise), they are always the same species (or at least mammal group).

My answer? Good friends...by the end of the movie. Trusted friends. Born of early conflict and mutual needs. Nothing more than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:27 am 
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Sorry to double post here, but this video should resolve any question of this, at least officially. I'll also post this video onto the production videos page on Zootopia Source.

(The account this was posted to is Chinese, thus the Chinese subtitles...)

Interesting inferences in this video too...especially about the very apparent possibilities of more movies (which I think we knew would be coming anyway). And while Byron Howard refers to the decision not to include dogs and cats in the movie because it was humans who domesticated them (a reasonable statement), he's also contradicting a few things put into the movie anyway: 1) domestic pigs and sheep seen as background and even main characters (the pink-skinned pigs as well as Assistant Mayor Bellwether and Doug, as well as other sheep); 2) the replacement of Zootopia News Network anchor Peter Moosebridge with what has been officially reported to be a corgi (which is a domestic breed of dog which is popular with Queen Elizabeth II).

However, during the video, the question is posed to Byron about whether or not there is a budding romance between Nick and Judy in the movie, or the possibility of it down the road. His answer is worth waiting for. (Here is the link for those of you who cannot get the embedded version below to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGyxWozKbUI)

(By the way, Draco...that emphasized statement about the bottom of your post? "RROOOW! FFT! FFT! RRRROOW!!! GRRR! :lol: I'm just sayin'. But then, I do agree with you in truth. Of course, I don't "have the power"...)



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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:50 am 
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I'm not really sure how to feel about them to be honest. I'm rather neutral. I'd be alright with it if they were a pairing or if they remained just friends, although I'd have to admit that I mostly lean towards them being just friends as anything more than a "cute" type of relationship would feel a bit odd to me I'm not sure why xD

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:14 am 
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MokiHunter wrote:
...I'd have to admit that I mostly lean towards them being just friends as anything more than a "cute" type of relationship would feel a bit odd to me I'm not sure why xD

Probably because, deep down in your semi-conscious mind, it's telling you that it's utterly impossible for a fox and a rabbit to interbreed (which is a very natural and instinctual way to interpret this...as well as a very logical and intelligent way to do so), and so it wouldn't make sense even in a hypothetical world where other mammals had somehow evolved into sentient, intelligent and civilized creatures capable of developing culture and society to the level seen in the movie. And because foxes and rabbits are, traditionally, "enemies", having an active predator/prey relationship.

Even in Zootopia, they played up on that by pairing traditional predator/prey creatures in unusual ways, and noting how those primitive impulses and relationships would make for a certain amount of discomfort and even species prejudice (which, while shown to be a bad thing, also is clearly shown to be the results of a natural process that spanned the ages in their world...prey are prejudiced against predators to varying degrees because, in their primitive forms, predators hunt and EAT prey...especially the young, the old and the sick. Predators, on the other hand, are prejudiced against prey to varying degrees because they are vastly outnumbered by them, and because they have had to learn not only to adapt and coexist with them, but to stop seeing them as food). This all echoes what forms the instinctual bases for our own prejudices in the real world...even though those prejudices can end up becoming twisted, and manipulated for darker purposes (such as racial hatred in ever sector of our species). That all makes perfect sense to me, as it should to anyone.

Though I know there's gonna be all that cornball shipping and "yeah, but what if..." silliness...

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:36 pm 
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the replacement of Zootopia News Network anchor Peter Moosebridge with what has been officially reported to be a corgi (which is a domestic breed of dog which is popular with Queen Elizabeth II).


This is a little irrelevant, but, having seen the movie in UK cinemas (and also finding no footage/pics of the corgi online) i don't think that's true (athough, he does have a different voice actor and name). It's a nice idea though!

Personally, regardless of whether or not they're different species, I'm glad that there was no romantic subplot between the two of them. Maybe this is just me, but romance had no reason to be in the film: the movie goes on perfectly without it...and really, what would it add that their strong friendship didn't? It's so common in movies/tv shows for the male and female protagonists to be in a romantic relationship by the end, and I found it really refreshing for Zootopia to leave it completely ambiguous.

I can definitely see the reasons for fans to pair them up, and I have absolutely no problem with those that do: but the fact it wasn't a part in the film itself, and was completely left up to the fans, is a much better solution than shoehorning it in somehow


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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:04 pm 
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meemee wrote:
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the replacement of Zootopia News Network anchor Peter Moosebridge with what has been officially reported to be a corgi (which is a domestic breed of dog which is popular with Queen Elizabeth II).


This is a little irrelevant, but, having seen the movie in UK cinemas (and also finding no footage/pics of the corgi online) i don't think that's true (athough, he does have a different voice actor and name). It's a nice idea though!

Oh. lol Well, that's what was being reported all over the net. But thanks for the clarification! I've been trying to get SOMEONE from the U.K. to get me that answer officially, and an image of what now is...not a corgi.

meemee wrote:
Personally, regardless of whether or not they're different species, I'm glad that there was no romantic subplot between the two of them. Maybe this is just me, but romance had no reason to be in the film: the movie goes on perfectly without it...and really, what would it add that their strong friendship didn't? It's so common in movies/tv shows for the male and female protagonists to be in a romantic relationship by the end, and I found it really refreshing for Zootopia to leave it completely ambiguous.

Now see, this is how I feel too. I think a romance would only have distracted from the story overall. Plus, I think we ALL know there would have been tons of nitpicking about that...from bloggers, vloggers and just your everyday fans on the net on every conceivable internet forum and space devoted to Zootopia/Zootropolis.

I am grateful to the directors and writers that they did NOT pair these two up...especially being different species. It would have made no freaking sense. And would have changed the entire nature of the movie, and the protagonists' friendship (as it would in the real world). Not necessarily for the better.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:28 pm 
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BaltoSeppala wrote:
MokiHunter wrote:
...I'd have to admit that I mostly lean towards them being just friends as anything more than a "cute" type of relationship would feel a bit odd to me I'm not sure why xD

Probably because, deep down in your semi-conscious mind, it's telling you that it's utterly impossible for a fox and a rabbit to interbreed (which is a very natural and instinctual way to interpret this...as well as a very logical and intelligent way to do so), and so it wouldn't make sense even in a hypothetical world where other mammals had somehow evolved into sentient, intelligent and civilized creatures capable of developing culture and society to the level seen in the movie. And because foxes and rabbits are, traditionally, "enemies", having an active predator/prey relationship.

Even in Zootopia, they played up on that by pairing traditional predator/prey creatures in unusual ways, and noting how those primitive impulses and relationships would make for a certain amount of discomfort and even species prejudice (which, while shown to be a bad thing, also is clearly shown to be the results of a natural process that spanned the ages in their world...prey are prejudiced against predators to varying degrees because, in their primitive forms, predators hunt and EAT prey...especially the young, the old and the sick. Predators, on the other hand, are prejudiced against prey to varying degrees because they are vastly outnumbered by them, and because they have had to learn not only to adapt and coexist with them, but to stop seeing them as food). This all echoes what forms the instinctual bases for our own prejudices in the real world...even though those prejudices can end up becoming twisted, and manipulated for darker purposes (such as racial hatred in ever sector of our species). That all makes perfect sense to me, as it should to anyone.

Though I know there's gonna be all that cornball shipping and "yeah, but what if..." silliness...


Actually, that sounds about right to me. That's probably the reason it would feel off to me xD

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:49 pm 
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MokiHunter wrote:
Actually, that sounds about right to me. That's probably the reason it would feel off to me xD

Well, keep in mind also that when, in the real world, we talk about mixed-race marriages, we are nevertheless talking about one species. Humans are humans are humans. Despite minor issues like skin color and individual facial characteristics (or body dimensions in some cases), we are one species - homo sapiens.

In the case of Zootopia (Zootropolis), however, the situation changes with any other movie or television series where there are anthropomorphized animals (regardless of whether they can just think and talk like humans, or they actually have human body dimensions and wear clothes)...such as Robin Hood, TaleSpin, Cats Don't Dance, or even The Secret of NIMH (which is technically a special circumstance, as only the rats and mice who came from NIMH...and their offspring, in the case of Martin, Theresa and Cynthia, at least in the first movie, dress in clothes...). In those, you NEVER, EVER see two animals, of two different species, "hooking up" and breeding, and then having mixed-breed children. Even in a fictional universe. Probably because the writers and artists honor the essential biological rules of nature and our universe. A fox, for instance, CANNOT interbreed with a rabbit. There are biological safeguards against that...not only in terms of their instinct, but in physical differences within and without.

I know that's a very complex answer. But it is also why the question of interracial marriage, really, couldn't be a story concept and moral conundrum in an animated movie which features anthropomorphic animals. Because otherwise it would violate the inviolable precepts of nature...and violate most peoples' suspension of belief. And would just look, quite frankly, idiotic.

So that's why the shipping seen in so much fan art, fan fictions, etc. makes no sense whatsoever to someone who understands and respects the rules of nature.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:50 pm 
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BaltoSeppala wrote:
MokiHunter wrote:
Actually, that sounds about right to me. That's probably the reason it would feel off to me xD

Well, keep in mind also that when, in the real world, we talk about mixed-race marriages, we are nevertheless talking about one species. Humans are humans are humans. Despite minor issues like skin color and individual facial characteristics (or body dimensions in some cases), we are one species - homo sapiens.

In the case of Zootopia (Zootropolis), however, the situation changes with any other movie or television series where there are anthropomorphized animals (regardless of whether they can just think and talk like humans, or they actually have human body dimensions and wear clothes)...such as Robin Hood, TaleSpin, Cats Don't Dance, or even The Secret of NIMH (which is technically a special circumstance, as only the rats and mice who came from NIMH...and their offspring, in the case of Martin, Theresa and Cynthia, at least in the first movie, dress in clothes...). In those, you NEVER, EVER see two animals, of two different species, "hooking up" and breeding, and then having mixed-breed children. Even in a fictional universe. Probably because the writers and artists honor the essential biological rules of nature and our universe. A fox, for instance, CANNOT interbreed with a rabbit. There are biological safeguards against that...not only in terms of their instinct, but in physical differences within and without.

I know that's a very complex answer. But it is also why the question of interracial marriage, really, couldn't be a story concept and moral conundrum in an animated movie which features anthropomorphic animals. Because otherwise it would violate the inviolable precepts of nature...and violate most peoples' suspension of belief. And would just look, quite frankly, idiotic.

So that's why the shipping seen in so much fan art, fan fictions, etc. makes no sense whatsoever to someone who understands and respects the rules of nature.







^^I guess I'll come in from the opposite side then. I fully acknowledge the fact that in a realistic world there's no way that could work at all. But coming from someone who does have mixed race parents I don't really have any qualms with a mixed species pairing in this case. If they can make a world where animals talk, walk, and wear clothing, I'm pretty sure coming up with some explanation for inter species breeding wouldn't be too difficult. Not that Judy and Nick even have to breed for their relationship to work. Treasure Planet made a cat girl and a dog guy have children so I think it could work. Or even just let them have a fox kit and a bunny instead of mixing DNA. Shrek had donkey-dragon hybrids. But again, they don't necessarily need to have children. Actually, in Cats Don't Dance they had a goat and a fish as partners so go figure. Madagascar had a giraffe and a hippo (though I will say that was not a pairing I liked at all). Over the Hedge had a skunk and a cat. There's plenty of examples of mixed species pairings in movies about anthropomorphic animals. Yes, not all of them bred, but I don't see an issue with it whether they breed or not.


Perhaps it's because I've seen weirder and way more nonsensical things in animation, but a fox and a rabbit being together? I find it cute. And I will freely admit I'm a sucker for cute pairings and somewhat savor the irony of the pairing as well. Just my opinion, I get that not everyone wants the ship to happen, but out of all the female and male lead pairings I've seen in movies, that one had tremendous chemistry, and I think it can easily carry over to be explored in a sequel.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:31 pm 
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Ancient Fairy Dragon wrote:
^^I guess I'll come in from the opposite side then. I fully acknowledge the fact that in a realistic world there's no way that could work at all. But coming from someone who does have mixed race parents I don't really have any qualms with a mixed species pairing in this case. If they can make a world where animals talk, walk, and wear clothing, I'm pretty sure coming up with some explanation for inter species breeding wouldn't be too difficult.

Well again, this goes to the fundamental differences between the real world and the fictional worlds presented in animated movies and television series. Your parents are both human. It works. No matter their race. It's an entirely different matter with two different species.

Ancient Fairy Dragon wrote:
Not that Judy and Nick even have to breed for their relationship to work. Treasure Planet made a cat girl and a dog guy have children so I think it could work. Or even just let them have a fox kit and a bunny instead of mixing DNA. Shrek had donkey-dragon hybrids. But again, they don't necessarily need to have children. Actually, in Cats Don't Dance they had a goat and a fish as partners so go figure. Madagascar had a giraffe and a hippo (though I will say that was not a pairing I liked at all). Over the Hedge had a skunk and a cat. There's plenty of examples of mixed species pairings in movies about anthropomorphic animals. Yes, not all of them bred, but I don't see an issue with it whether they breed or not.

Treasure Planet is set in a futuristic world, and a very fanciful one at that. In many science fiction settings, creatures that were often artificially manufactured appeared. Creatures that wouldn't have evolved naturally anywhere in the cosmos. Madagascar is considered a flop by critics and private reviewers (note the 55% rating on Rotten Tomatoes). And is just a silly children's comedy with a lot of base humor (and individual reviews support that view). Over The Hedge is based upon a newspaper comic strip. And the alleged "relationship" inferred at the end of the movie version may or (probably more likely) may not represent the continuing story line, or incidental one-strip stories/jokes, in the original comic strip. There's no evidence of any relationship in the original, and only what I recall being a vague inference, at best, at the end (though it has been a LONG time since I've seen it, since I found that one silly and inane).

Let me clarify: any SERIOUS animated movie or television series, featuring anthropomorphized animals does not have two different species developing relationships. They keep to their own species.

Ancient Fairy Dragon wrote:
Perhaps it's because I've seen weirder and way more nonsensical things in animation, but a fox and a rabbit being together? I find it cute. And I will freely admit I'm a sucker for cute pairings and somewhat savor the irony of the pairing as well. Just my opinion, I get that not everyone wants the ship to happen, but out of all the female and male lead pairings I've seen in movies, that one had tremendous chemistry, and I think it can easily carry over to be explored in a sequel.

That's your right to view it that way, and I think that's fine. Totally. But I refer back to my previous response in this reply to you. I mean, what you're inferring makes about as much sense as having a world where humans AND anthropomorphized animals live, work and communicate together and, presumably-speaking, a human could have a romantic relationship with, say, a bison or something. Sorry, I just don't see it. It smacks of fringe thinking. Weird thinking (no disrespect intended, buddy).

Most serious writers/animators/directors/producers have, in even fictional animated movies and television series featuring anthropomorphized animals, respected the laws of nature for the most part. And common sense. And that's just how it ought to be as far as I am concerned. There's already enough cornball weirdness in the general fan communities to not add this other concept to the mix. lol

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Well again, this goes to the fundamental differences between the real world and the fictional worlds presented in animated movies and television series. Your parents are both human. It works. No matter their race. It's an entirely different matter with two different species.


Yes that's true. But since one of the themes of Zootopia is racism, I view the species as the "races" of that world as well. I know how it works in the real world, but with fiction you can make anything happen, the only limits are the ones you set for yourself. Those are my thoughts on it.

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Treasure Planet is set in a futuristic world, and a very fanciful one at that. In many science fiction settings, creatures that were often artificially manufactured appeared. Creatures that wouldn't have evolved naturally anywhere in the cosmos. Madagascar is considered a flop by critics and private reviewers (note the 55% rating on Rotten Tomatoes). And is just a silly children's comedy with a lot of base humor (and individual reviews support that view). Over The Hedge is based upon a newspaper comic strip. And the alleged "relationship" inferred at the end of the movie version may or (probably more likely) may not represent the continuing story line, or incidental one-strip stories/jokes, in the original comic strip. There's no evidence of any relationship in the original, and only what I recall being a vague inference, at best, at the end (though it has been a LONG time since I've seen it, since I found that one silly and inane).

Let me clarify: any SERIOUS animated movie or television series, featuring anthropomorphized animals does not have two different species developing relationships. They keep to their own species.


Not to get off topic or anything, but I will say that I don't believe in the theory of evolution, but in Zootopia's world the species evolved right? So if we go based off of things that evolutionists say happened by macro-evolution, I'd say the idea of species "evolving" the ability to mate with opposite species could be plausible as much as a dinosaur evolving to a bird.

I'll throw out a few more small examples:

A Bug's Life - I'd say that was a somewhat serious movie about bugs (yes they're insects and not mammals, but there were clearly two different species of insects that had a working relationship there. Those being the butterfly and mantis from the circus.

Sonic SatAM - I watched that series growing up as a kid, and it was definitely not the stupid version that also ran at the time called The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. It was a bit dark. Character death was alluded to, Robotnik constantly tried to kill the freedom fighters, and Sonic and Sally (who was a squirrel) definitely had a relationship that was semi-romantic (and that continued to be explored in the comics).

Sonic X - This one is an anime, but it was also aired Saturdays on 4Kids and CW for a long while so you could view it as a cartoon, but Tails the fox and Cosmo (Some weird alien thing called a Seedrian) had a romance. Yes Cosmo's not another mammal species, but it's similar to what I'm trying to show.

So to say that there is no serious case of this happening in animation... well I just don't think that's entirely true, JC.

And as far as Over the Hedge goes. I was really only referring to the movie. I've never read the comics, so I'm only throwing out what the movie writers gave us, which was that short romance. I also happened to like that movie a lot too X)

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That's your right to view it that way, and I think that's fine. Totally. But I refer back to my previous response in this reply to you. I mean, what you're inferring makes about as much sense as having a world where humans AND anthropomorphized animals live, work and communicate together and, presumably-speaking, a human could have a romantic relationship with, say, a bison or something. Sorry, I just don't see it. It smacks of fringe thinking. Weird thinking (no disrespect intended, buddy).

Most serious writers/animators/directors/producers have, in even fictional animated movies and television series featuring anthropomorphized animals, respected the laws of nature for the most part. And common sense. And that's just how it ought to be as far as I am concerned. There's already enough cornball weirdness in the general fan communities to not add this other concept to the mix. lol


I don't take any offense. I respect your views on it, but I still maintain my own. If they established somewhere in the movie that that kind of relationship was impossible, I'd be fine with it not happening and sticking to the lovely creations the shippers in the fandom make. But as far as I know they didn't do that, and it remains a possibility. This is why I would still like to see it happen. Also, I know it's an anime and not a western animation, but Spice and Wolf was a beautiful story about a man's relationship with a wolf goddess. She took human form, (she still had ears and a tail and fangs,) but she was also a wolf. And it worked. It wasn't (in my opinion) disgusting or bestial in anyway.

And to conclude, I'm not throwing any fits if it does/doesn't happen. I might be kinda mad if they shoehorn some other random bunny to be with Judy for the sequel since I'm already nose deep in this Titanic of a ship, but if it does happen, I'll be perfectly happy as well. It's been quite a while since I had to pick my brain for a meaningful response on a topic involving some animation from the western world lol. I'm more used to discussing anime haha.

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 Post subject: Re: Nick and Judy: Pairing or Friends?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:52 am 
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I'm not in a position to comment on everything I see here, but at a glance it looks like a lot of people have thought of much the same things that I did; for example, the question of evolution and what the species barriers in Zootopia really mean (and by the way, Ancient, I don't buy the evolution thing either, but even allowing its presence in the movie universe, I think that the processes necessary for one species to cross-breed with another - e.g. making their DNA compatible - would be considerably more complicated than a dinosaur evolving into a bird).

I've seen some Nick/Judy fan fiction, and allowing for interpretation it looked decent (I'm sure there's also some garbage out there, but that's a given with fan fiction). Taking them strictly in movie terms, no, I don't think that they could have kids and I'm not entirely sure that they'd want to try. I've had a few friends who were girls with whom I bantered much as Nick does with Judy, and there was nothing romantic about it even though, to a stranger, it may well have looked like we were flirting. As for Judy, at least at the stage she's seen in the movie, she seems more like a career girl. I could definitely see her finding a guy later on to round out her life, but I think she'd want someone of her own species. Her and Nick I see as just friends - and in many respects, perhaps better off that way. From personal experience, going from friends to more than friends can really complicate things, especially with them being squad partners.

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