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 Post subject: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:43 am 
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I was thinking about Karnage and was wondering why that in Plunder and Lightning he is often feared by Kahn's pilots and through his skill and dareing manages to get the stone (anti-matter I think) and the resources to build the Lightning Gun and not to mention throughout the film is quite cunning and ruthless, and often viloent. Plus he does find out about it. Also there is that $10,000 price on his head, dead or alive!

However in most of the episodes he is showen as a bit of a klutz and even a fool. I think it's due too his ego and pride sometimes getting the better of him and causing him to do some crazy (oh sorry Karnage I mean extream!) sceme's that backfire on him like that huge mirror in I Have A Bad Reflection On You where a cleaver but over the top plan is found out after a handfull of captures.

Most of the time I reckon he goes for aircraft in the same way you see it in P&L part 3 and ships on the high sea, only too come up with some plan. In several others he had a good plan but once Baloo is on the scene his anger of him makes him loose his cool, in Bygones he has a good start on Baloo and Captains Outrageous is the same throughout untill beaten.

In a few episods he does get the job almost done but is beaten. And his crew often do an ok job as in Captains Outrageous they do lead Baloo and Oscar into a trap and in P&L capture Kahn's cargo plane.

A crew can often reflect their leader and when he goes over the top and crazy they can too, ok some are just stupid like Hacksaw and Dumptruck but Maddag and Hal are ok'ísh.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:52 am 
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and the resources to build the Lightning Gun

No, as Jymn stated, the air pirates don't build anything; they only steal :mrgreen:

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Also there is that $10,000 price on his head, dead or alive!

Really? :shock: Strange, I can't seem to remember that in Plunder & Lightning. What scene do we learn that?
Except maybe the reward from Shere Khan for bringing back the stone? Which is not exactly the same thing.

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However in most of the episodes he is showen as a bit of a klutz and even a fool.

I think this depends on the writer; BUT the only reason he appears as a fool is because Baloo is superior when it comes to aviation skills and makes fun of him. But I think the other people in Cape Suzette DO fear him and the air pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:27 am 
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steet wrote:
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and the resources to build the Lightning Gun

No, as Jymn stated, the air pirates don't build anything; they only steal :mrgreen:

They stole the parts but who builds a Lightning Gun, Khan didn't, Ratchet must have assembled it himself from cobbled together parts. :roll:

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Also there is that $10,000 price on his head, dead or alive!

Really? :shock: Strange, I can't seem to remember that in Plunder & Lightning. What scene do we learn that?
Except maybe the reward from Shere Khan for bringing back the stone? Which is not exactly the same thing.

I think it eigther in Stuch On You or Jumping The Guns when some gunners made a joke about him and his poster. :lol:

:lol:
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However in most of the episodes he is showen as a bit of a klutz and even a fool.

I think this depends on the writer; BUT the only reason he appears as a fool is because Baloo is superior when it comes to aviation skills and makes fun of him. But I think the other people in Cape Suzette DO fear him and the air pirates.


Yes Baloo did outmatch him and that can break your morale. I also ment his ego and eccentric nature makes it hard for him to stay calm and on track. When things went well for him he was on track. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:51 pm 
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In a few episods he does get the job almost done but is beaten.

Well, of course, it would be pretty dark/catastrophic if Karnage won, actually. We can have a glimpse of that in Plunder & Lightning...
ALTHOUGH, at the same time, I don't think Karnage would go as far as KILLING people randomly. (of course they wouldn't considering it's a cartoon, but even then)

In the end, the question is : what does Karnage *truly wants*? "Conquer the world"? Really? And what, after that?

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And his crew often do an ok job

Errr, really?...Cause I would say that most often, they are THE ONES who ruin his plans! :lol:

NB : You didn't answer my question on the $10.000 reward. I still think it's not a reward for getting Don Karnage but the stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:48 pm 
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steet wrote:
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In a few episods he does get the job almost done but is beaten.

Well, of course, it would be pretty dark/catastrophic if Karnage won, actually. We can have a glimpse of that in Plunder & Lightning...
ALTHOUGH, at the same time, I don't think Karnage would go as far as KILLING people randomly. (of course they wouldn't considering it's a cartoon, but even then)

In P&L Maddag asks why he let Kahn's pilots live, it was too tell him what they took.

In the end, the question is : what does Karnage *truly wants*? "Conquer the world"? Really? And what, after that?

All he wants is treasure and plunder.

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And his crew often do an ok job

Errr, really?...Cause I would say that most often, they are THE ONES who ruin his plans! :lol:

In Captains Outrageous a different unit ambushes Baloo and Oscar and Karnage capture's them with the Vulture.

NB : You didn't answer my question on the $10.000 reward. I still think it's not a reward for getting Don Karnage but the stone.


The Cape Suzeete defense gunners joked about him on a wanted poster in eigther Jumping The Guns or Stuck On You.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:05 pm 
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In my opinion Karnage was so evil in "Plundering & Lighting"; For that reason I became him one of my favorite villains (at least in Disney animated TV shows, along with Negaduck from "Darkwing Duck").

Even so, in other episodes Karnage is shown as a guy sure what he does, but when something will interfere in his plans (-coughBaloocough-, or insert another less obvious reason), he let the circumstances be taken him by surprise and he acts not according to plan.

"$10,000 price on his head, dead or alive"? I do not remember seeing anything like this in a "P&L" scene; that would not be "well seen" in a show for kids xD.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Sabaku-No-Ale wrote:
In my opinion Karnage was so evil in "Plundering & Lighting"; For that reason I became him one of my favorite villains (at least in Disney animated TV shows, along with Negaduck from "Darkwing Duck").

Even so, in other episodes Karnage is shown as a guy sure what he does, but when something will interfere in his plans (-coughBaloocough-, or insert another less obvious reason), he let the circumstances be taken him by surprise and he acts not according to plan.

"$10,000 price on his head, dead or alive"? I do not remember seeing anything like this in a "P&L" scene; that would not be "well seen" in a show for kids xD.


Karnage did seem somewhat more malicious in the pilot, compared to later on where he's more a petty villain interested in just profit than malice, and holds the slightest bit of moral code (I'd have liked to see them play with his respectful rivalry with Baloo more as they did in 'Stuck on You' for example).

Otherwise Karnage is my favorite kind of villain, a highly comical and sympathetic one but with frequent enough bouts of plausible competance and fearsomeness. He's up there with Kaa, Dr "Eggman" Robotnik, King Bowser Koopa and the Urpneys on my A list.

steet wrote:
Errr, really?...Cause I would say that most often, they are THE ONES who ruin his plans! :lol:


It seemed to be another 'Depending On The Writer' situation, sometimes they were worthless idiots, other times even they knew when Karnage was acting off his rocker (dare they mention the 'C' word). :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:08 am 
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Sabaku-No-Ale wrote:
In my opinion Karnage was so evil in "Plundering & Lighting"; For that reason I became him one of my favorite villains (at least in Disney animated TV shows, along with Negaduck from "Darkwing Duck").

He was on course, was never beaten and was with a weapon of un-thinkable power, who would't be like that.

Even so, in other episodes Karnage is shown as a guy sure what he does, but when something will interfere in his plans (-coughBaloocough-, or insert another less obvious reason), he let the circumstances be taken him by surprise and he acts not according to plan.

True, he may be a good planner but has no ablity too react or be flexable in response and just get's pissed off. His ego makes him refuse too deviate from plan, A bit like the US military!

"$10,000 price on his head, dead or alive"? I do not remember seeing anything like this in a "P&L" scene; that would not be "well seen" in a show for kids xD.


It was in eigther Stuck on you or Jumping The Guns when a couple of gunners made a joke about him and his wanted poster.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:47 am 
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I rewatched Jumping the guns recently and didn't see this. Maybe in Stuck on you then?

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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:37 am 
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I believe Karnage was very formidable and cunning. However when something doesn't go exactly according to plan he looses it because his ego tells him that nothing could go wrong. Baloo is supposed to be the greatest pilot yet when in a dogfight against Karnage he sure gets nervous, that should tell you something. He and his crew constructed the Iron Vulture and built a lightning gun in his own secret island which he almost brought down Cape Suzette with. A guy like this is certainly no fool but his ego does get the best of him often. When you think about it though wouldn't you have a large ego if you had everything that Karnage has?


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:33 am 
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AirPirate36 wrote:
I believe Karnage was very formidable and cunning. However when something doesn't go exactly according to plan he looses it because his ego tells him that nothing could go wrong. Baloo is supposed to be the greatest pilot yet when in a dogfight against Karnage he sure gets nervous, that should tell you something. He and his crew constructed the Iron Vulture and built a lightning gun in his own secret island which he almost brought down Cape Suzette with. A guy like this is certainly no fool but his ego does get the best of him often. When you think about it though wouldn't you have a large ego if you had everything that Karnage has?


I agree with AirPirate36 - I'd add that geniuses sometimes had got the bad day... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:50 am 
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What's funny about TaleSpin is that a LOT of characters had a big ego, in fact.

I mean : Baloo has a huge ego about "being the best pilot", Rebecca has a big ego on "running her business the way she wants", Shere Khan has a big ego on "being powerful", Spigot has a big ego on "being the colonel"... and some one-shot characters like Ace London had a big ego too.

Even Kit had a big ego in Stormy Weathers about "being able to do crazy stunts" ("I know what I'm doing!")...

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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the way?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:29 pm 
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steet wrote:
What's funny about TaleSpin is that a LOT of characters had a big ego, in fact.

I mean : Baloo has a huge ego about "being the best pilot", Rebecca has a big ego on "running her business the way she wants", Shere Khan has a big ego on "being powerful", Spigot has a big ego on "being the colonel"... and some one-shot characters like Ace London had a big ego too.

Even Kit had a big ego in Stormy Weathers about "being able to do crazy stunts" ("I know what I'm doing!")...


Indeed they do although with Karnage his ego to me was more comical sarcasm, where as say with baloo or kit it seemed more serious and they often irritated me haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the wa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Actually Karnage is both since fools and conceited people usually are but Karnage also suffers from mental illness. Being the way he is makes him more likely to fall in love with the wrong gal after all, fools do fall in love.


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 Post subject: Re: Karnage, a total fool or a guy who's ego get's in the wa
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Sabaku-No-Ale wrote:
In my opinion Karnage was so evil in "Plundering & Lighting"; For that reason I became him one of my favorite villains (at least in Disney animated TV shows, along with Negaduck from "Darkwing Duck").

Even so, in other episodes Karnage is shown as a guy sure what he does, but when something will interfere in his plans Garde Meubles Lyon (-coughBaloocough-, or insert another less obvious reason), he let the circumstances be taken him by surprise and he acts not according to plan.

"$10,000 price on his head, dead or alive"? I do not remember seeing anything like this in a "P&L" scene; that would not be "well seen" in a show for kids xD.

But despite that, he always did the right thing, so he's still brave.


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