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 Post subject: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:00 am 
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I was browsing around on wikipedia a few weeks ago when I stumbled onto the glossary of fanfiction terms article. As I was scanning through it a particular term caught my eye.

“Virtual Seasons”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_o ... al_seasons

When I saw this, I couldn't help but think of TaleSpin. I wondered if any Virtual Season(s), hereafter referred to as 'VS', existed for TS. I searched but couldn't find any, or at least none that called themselves VS. The closest things I could find were the stories and illustrations at HighFlight and Ann29's fanfics. So I guess what I'm asking is this: does anyone know if a VS has been made for TS?

If the answer is 'no', then I personally think that a fan collaboration to create a TS VS could be an interesting project to tackle. I suppose I'd like to see a TS VS made is because the series still has so much potential. The character dynamics are so strong, and the fact that they have a plane that enables them to go just about anywhere anytime they want, creates a nearly endless array of possible storylines. Also, as with all DA cartoon series, it never got a proper conclusion. Not that I'm in any rush to conclude the series, as I'd very much like to see it grow and develop, where even a 'conclusion' is not so concrete as to prevent encore seasons.

I have a lot of ideas for a possible VS and several links to various software to facilitate the development of such a project, but I'm going to hold off posting all that stuff until I know I'm not alone on this.

So, is anyone else interested in creating a TS VS?

If you want a little more info on creating a VS before you reply, here's the link:
PTV – Creating A Virtual Series http://www.pvtonline.tv/creation/ << dead link
(Unfortunately this web page is currently 404, but luckily I downloaded it when it was still up.)

http://www.mediafire.com/?jzi3gjn2k3h << download link

P.S. If you know any TS fans on other forums who may be interested in participating, please refer them here.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:35 am 
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As I have said, you've got my support :)

Maybe you should link to this topic on http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/27554.html and http://cloudkicker.proboards.com/index.cgi?, as well as the Livejournal http://community.livejournal.com/tale_spin/ so as to contact more fans.

Then we'll be able to decide what to do next.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:53 pm 
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You've got also my support.
I just love Talespin and perhaps I'm able to help in whatever I can. The idea can not just be left unseen. Long live Talespin. I was even thinking on a comic strip, but then it could be that too. I dont know. What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:55 am 
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OPUS wrote:
You've got also my support.
I just love Talespin and perhaps I'm able to help in whatever I can. The idea can not just be left unseen. Long live Talespin. I was even thinking on a comic strip, but then it could be that too. I dont know. What do you think?


I think you could help by making drawings for the fanfics that would get written / selected :)

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Okay, so it looks like HighFlight was a VS after all.

Gabe Bennett over at HighFlight wrote:
Actually, as I recall, this is basically what the High Flight story series was meant to be. So in a way, a TS virtual season already exists.

I knew it basically fit the major criteria to be a VS, even though it doesn't actually state that it's a VS. Even so, as great as those quality stories are, the last update/addition was almost five years ago... and I'm kinda ready for some new stories... So I guess I'll just go ahead and share my ideas of how I would handle making a VS:

Basically, I'd like to treat the project as professionally as possible, as if it was being done for Disney. Fan volunteers would be elected to various management, creative and production roles as in an actual animation studio. Stories would be in script/screenplay format since the original production is a TV show and screenplays are specifically for that format. In case you're not familiar with screenplays, here are some links to example screenplays.

--- A Goofy Movie (By Jymn Magon) >> http://web.archive.org/web/200304050643 ... yMovie.pdf
--- The Lion King >> http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Lion-King,-The.pdf
--- List of avaliable Screenplays >> http://www.scriptologist.com/Directory/ ... enani.html

Before I go any further, I just have to say that NO, I am not that guy on YouTube that wrote that live-action TS Screenplay. The thought of a live-action TS makes me retch. Anyway... In regards to writing in screenplay format, software exist to do just that. Celtx is a free pre-production suite that does screenplays, storyborads, and many other useful things I'll not bother to list here. It's very well done and user-friendly, so check it out.

http://celtx.com/

I've made up a list if possible formats a TS virtual season might be done in, ordered from least to most achievable:

note:
- Limited animation = Similar to a slide show with a variable frame rate. The faster the action, the faster the frame rate. Similar to anime but drawn in the Disney style.
- Storyboard reel video = A video slide show where each slide is a storyboard panel complete with speech captions.
- Document type = Screenplay or narrative prose. (I vote for screenplay)

Formats:
--- A. fully animated color episodes with full voice, music and SFX (sound effects)
This type would look and feel like canon episodes. Needless to say, this format is pretty much unattainable. Moving on...

--- B. storyboard reel video with limited color animation, full music and SFX.
Now entering the realm of possibility. This format would require an enormous amount of work, but if done properly, it could be fairly impressive. If the storyboard reels in format 'C' were cleaned up, colorized and given a comic book appearance you would have this format.

--- C. storyboard reel video with very limited animation, featuring only a few color illustrations, sketch animated scenes and limited music and SFX, focusing on pivotal scenes.
This format could be the sweet spot. It would still look very nice and require far less labor. Here is (sort of) an example of what I mean.
(From Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM DVD extras.)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dyt1vgmtw ... reel_1.avi (3.50 Mb, 1m 10s)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z5dyygnmn ... reel_2.avi (2.48 Mb, 1m 0s)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/i0mmnjmtm ... reel_3.avi (1.52 Mb, 0m 20s)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jmtymwrhn ... reel_4.avi (903.23 Kb, 0m 18s)
Reel 1 and 2 are good examples. I would basically like to do a VS like this but with added music and SFX, if possible. (note: Xvid codec required to play video.)

--- D. document type with no animation, music or SFX, only text and a few color illustrations for key scenes/characters.
HighFlight falls into this category, so it's obviously doable. http://home.earthlink.net/~eilonwy/highflight/

--- E. document type with text and B&W sketches only
Better than 'F'.

--- F. document type with text only
Better than nothing.


Probably the best strategy would be to start simple, like at format 'F', and if that's successful, go back and add artwork (and possibly sound) in phases, hopefully upgrading format 'F' to format 'D' or even 'C'. Obviously this would all be a LOT of work, and I can't do it alone (nor would I want to!) My goal would be to produce 7 – 13 episodes per VS. By my estimation, it would take between 6 and 12 people to pull off format 'F', plus an additional 6 - 12 or more people per increase in format up to about format 'C'.

As for story/series dynamics/arcs... The original series had some continuity that resembled the beginnings of a story arc if it were allowed to progress, but as all 65 episodes take place within only about a year, so there's not much opportunity to develop a series arc. For instance, Baloo and Becky becoming close friends after a rocky start in P&L and Kit and Baloo learning to trust each other are examples of continuity that suggest a casual story arc may be possible. By casual series arc I mean that, unlike a conventional series arc where nearly every episode builds to some kind of a grand finale and if you miss one or two episodes then you're completely lost, there would be greater continuity between episodes, but they would still be largely independent and interchangeable. An example of increased continuity/series arc could be more character development, the persistence of memory, planning ahead beyond the episode, the consequences of actions (sometimes) carrying over to future episodes and so on. Put simply, characters would remember what had happened in previous episodes, learn from their mistakes and plan for the future... to an extent. The reset button would still be there, it just might not always be pressed.

The general plan would be to work out a timeline for the major events in the VS (picking up where the original left off) to guide the creation of new episodes. I for one would like to see the characters age slightly because I wouldn't want it to end up like the Simpsons where the characters never age at all. Allowing the characters to age would provide ample opportunity for character development as the characters mature and take on new responsibilities and would also provide an ever changing array of interesting and entertaining storylines. If you're wondering how much the characters would age, it's difficult to say, but probably not more than 5 – 8 years. How many episodes would make up a TS year? Again I'm not sure, but I would estimate 26 at minimum, meaning that this proposed VS would be doing well to age the characters just one year. We'll just have to wait to see how many fans are interested in volunteering to know how many episodes can be produced per VS, or if this is even possible at all.

So those are the details for now... Please share your thoughts and ideas!

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Err, well my advice : break your posts into smaller ones, or people (like me) will be too lazy to answer to everything :lol:

In any case : as I have said, choose the most simple/realistic solution, which is plain text with maybe some pictures.

I'm not sure writing a screenplay would be so much a good idea, unless you're planning to actually include animations. Because otherwise you would have to write BOTH a screenplay and a fanfic.

I have suggested that maybe, take "already written" fanfics, writing a few new ones, and adding artworks to them would be enough for a first "Virtual Season"...

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:29 pm 
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steet wrote:
Err, well my advice : break your posts into smaller ones, or people (like me) will be too lazy to answer to everything :lol:

Shorter posts, got it.
steet wrote:
In any case : as I have said, choose the most simple/realistic solution, which is plain text with maybe some pictures.

I agree completely.
steet wrote:
I'm not sure writing a screenplay would be so much a good idea, unless you're planning to actually include animations. Because otherwise you would have to write BOTH a screenplay and a fanfic.

I can't say I understand why... Although I'm not dead set on using the screenplay format, I must say they are very efficient and easy to understand. Screenplays don't need animation, they are the guide for creating the animation. Yes, the point of writing a screenplay is normally to follow it with animation, but in this case, it could just as easily be an end rather than a means. Also, one reason I'd like to use the screenplay format is because it eliminates one of my pet peeves... delving into the internal thoughts of the characters. Since a screenplay can only contain what a camera can see and a microphone can hear, there's no opportunity to get in the characters heads by using long, internal monologues. Any emotion must be expressed through spoken dialogue or visible actions. Reading the screenplay to "A Goofy Movie", it's not difficult at all to visualize what's happening, even if you've never seen the movie, and there is no lack of emotion..
steet wrote:
I have suggested that maybe, take "already written" fanfics, writing a few new ones, and adding artworks to them would be enough for a first "Virtual Season"...

I had thought of using existing fanfics too, and while is it tempting because it would save a lot of work, I would prefer not to. I just feel like that's a little like repackaging something old as if it were new. Like when a car company changes something minor like the hood ornament on last year's model and sells it as the new year model. I have other reasons for this view, but more on that later...

EDIT: Okay, I've thought about it a little more, and I guess it would be alright to use some existing fanfics in the VS... Something that concerns me though... more likely than not, many existing fics will require some modifications in order to be included in a VS... how will their authors respond to this? Also I would suggest that at least 50% of the stories be new, so the VS doesn't feel like Déjà vu.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:36 am 
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Quote:
I can't say I understand why... Although I'm not dead set on using the screenplay format, I must say they are very efficient and easy to understand. Screenplays don't need animation, they are the guide for creating the animation. Yes, the point of writing a screenplay is normally to follow it with animation, but in this case, it could just as easily be an end rather than a means. Also, one reason I'd like to use the screenplay format is because it eliminates one of my pet peeves... delving into the internal thoughts of the characters. Since a screenplay can only contain what a camera can see and a microphone can hear, there's no opportunity to get in the characters heads by using long, internal monologues. Any emotion must be expressed through spoken dialogue or visible actions. Reading the screenplay to "A Goofy Movie", it's not difficult at all to visualize what's happening, even if you've never seen the movie, and there is no lack of emotion..

Well ok then, although it seems a bit strange to read screenplays because I feel they weren't made for that. But maybe it would be convenient, true.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:21 am 
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I am very fond of this idea and I agree that it is a nice thing for the fandom to try to do. I would like to offer my services to this project. Be it animation or music(at least a violin or two within a recording ;) I don't have those fancy sound/music editors and I only know how to play just the violin lol)

For the music I have a suggestion for who we can ask to help us. I remember there was another member, Darius, who composed/arranged (digital)orchestra track inspired by the talespin OST. I liked that member's work :) http://www.animationsource.org/talespin ... us/49.html

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:14 am 
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Thanks for the support, everyone. I hope I haven't scared anyone off with the screenplay idea! The virtual season can be done in conventional prose; I have no problem with that. I guess another reason I'm biased toward the screenplay format is because I come from a computer coding background, and the standardized layout of the screenplay format reminds me of nice, neat, easy to read blocks of code. (I knew the screenplay idea would be hard to sell in the first place.) I know I can have some strange ideas and suggestions, but remember, nothing is set in stone yet and I'm flexible. :)

OPUS wrote:
I was even thinking on a comic strip, but then it could be that too. I don't know. What do you think?

I think that's a great idea! I had a similar idea myself and I think it will work well, so hopefully the fandom can pull together and make it happen.
Eclipse wrote:
I would like to offer my services to this project. Be it animation or music(at least a violin or two within a recording ;)

Thanks for the offer! If this project actually gets off the ground it will need all the help it can get. Once a set of stories are assembled, artwork, animation and music would really take those stories to the next level.
Eclipse wrote:
For the music I have a suggestion for who we can ask to help us. I remember there was another member, Darius, who composed/arranged (digital)orchestra track inspired by the talespin OST. I liked that member's work :) http://www.animationsource.org/talespin ... us/49.html

I've heard the score you're referring to, and it does sound very good! It's one of the things that gave me the idea to try and (eventually) include SFX and music.

So yeah, hopefully this project will catch on and not just fizzle out.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Well then, maybe each one of us can tell what we're able to do, so that we can decide which form the project could take?

I can help on the hosting, the "advertising", and to give advice - maybe do some global project management.
I'm afraid I haven't got much talent when it comes to drawing or music - I can still write, but it's difficult because I'm not a native english speaker. If REALLY we're unable to find enough people to write the scenarios, I could consider helping on that.

For now, I would say that fanfics/screenplays with a few drawings added here and there (especially for the new characters) and a few musics would work great. (I could add something like that on the site - the fanfic section already works, I would only have to work on an option to add musics on some pages)

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:34 pm 
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steet wrote:
Well then, maybe each one of us can tell what we're able to do, so that we can decide which form the project could take?

I've never really done anything like this before, so it's hard to say... I could probably write stories and maybe do some other things like beta reading and story editing. I may be able to do more once the VS gets underway, but for now, I'll probably stick to writing related tasks.


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:01 pm 
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I'm not a pretty good writer, but I can help you in whatever I can. I wanted to do a comic strip a long time ago, but the lack of companionship took the motivaion out of me to at least try. I never got a reply.

Today, after seeing of these replies to your idea. I got my motivation back. I dont care if this is for a comic strip or not, but if you write I'll draw whatever I can.


Down here is a sample of a quick idea I got today after comming back from work. It is not well detailed but it kinda gives an idea.


Last edited by OPUS on Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:39 am 
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Wow! Those look great! I'm always impressed by how on-model your drawings are! As soon as some stories are produced/collected they'll need some artwork; you're welcome to contribute!

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a TaleSpin Virtual Season......?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:26 am 
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Thanks for the oportunity.

Here is some bcky. I hope I can scribble some Baloo soon. Just for practice.


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