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 Post subject: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:07 pm 
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Kit Cloudkicker's debut promo on Ducktales 2017 is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2rVeqfYtAM

Wow, they gave him a lot of time here.

Update (02/13/2021): The episode Kit will be in is called "The Lost Cargo Of Kit Cloudkicker!" and apparently is coming March 1st.


I should warn that the promo and episode title were clearly leaked by Disney XD as Frank Agnones has stated that more details are coming out next week.


Last edited by Gregory Weagle on Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit Cloudkicker, Ducktales 2017, Episode
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:09 am 
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Yes, they did give Kit and the Sea Duck a lot of air time. :wink:

I don't have high hopes for this, but am curious enough to watch it. Will it be another "what the blazes was that" episode, or will it be pretty good like the ones featuring Darkwing Duck?


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit Cloudkicker, Ducktales 2017, Episode
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:24 am 
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Does anyone know when "Buckle Up" will air?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit Cloudkicker, Ducktales 2017, Episode
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:20 am 
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I cringe at the way Ducktales reinvented Don Karnage, though I was excited that his character got some attention after all these years. I feel the same way with Kit now, more so because Kit is my fave; excited that his character is getting attention, but overall dreading it, too.

When we were given a sneak peak at Kit's revisioned character design, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought, "Baloo clone." And I thought that with disappointment. This preview certainly does nothing to dissuade that concern. It's Baloo with an airfoil. I've not read any explanation behind Kit's redesign, but I get a feeling that he's supposed to be the "Baloo" of the new Ducktale's world, if that makes any sense. Perhaps they're paying homage to both characters by rolling them into one. But in that case, how much better would it have been to just include both characters as the team they were in the series; that dynamic seemed to work out pretty well.

Of course, the eps haven't aired yet, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I would love to like it. But, as Ann29 said, my hopes aren't high.


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
Update (02/13/2021): The episode Kit will be in is called "The Lost Cargo Of Kit Cloudkicker!" and apparently is coming March 1st.


I should warn that the promo and episode title were clearly leaked by Disney XD as Frank Agnones has stated that more details are coming out next week.


Thanks for the info, Gregory. :)


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:49 pm 
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So, after seeing the ep, I’d title it “The Tragedy of Kit Cloudkicker!” Hoo, boy. It was actually a worse treatment of Kit than I was bracing for. And it really is a shame. Seeing some of the familiar sights referencing TaleSpin in a brand new show left me feeling nostalgic and wistful for what amazing things they could have done with this character.

The folks at DT obviously had wonderful intentions. They wanted to do something fun for those of us who grew up with the Disney Afternoon. I totally love that. And I'm happy for anyone who loved the ep, that's what it's all about. That said, the nature of being a fan of any fiction is getting imaginatively invested in your favorite characters. Kit was a character in which I was invested as such. Since the ep is so fresh and on my mind, I just feel like a few things ought to be said. Maybe some out there will nod in agreement.

EPISODE SPOILER WARNING

HOLY GUACAMOLE ARE THERE SOME EPISODE SPOILERS BELOW THIS

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS!

In TaleSpin, Kit had certain ambitions and dreams, and sometimes, as we saw, there were instances where he was willing to go through emotionally painful measures to attempt them, when it meant to dare to go out on his own. The kid had guts to spare in reaching for things when he really, really wanted them. Ducktales unfortunately skewered this, wiped out any ambitious essence of his character, all for a moral of “hold on to what you love the most, not what others expect of you.” That’s great, it’s actually a motto I think fits Kit perfectly… but this was not the TaleSpin Kit by any stretch.

Some things I liked:

-The very brief image of young Kit cloudsuring, saving Molly, I believe based on It Came from Beneath the Sea Duck. This was awesome.

-“Kit Sky-prancer.” Okay… I laughed. :)

-Kit not being booksmart. It rings true, to me. Unfortunately, they took this pretty far and he's actually rather stupid.

-Kit struggling to be a “hotshot” pilot. I liked this at first, because it seemed to be an ironic, relatable flaw. I say “at first” because further revelation is that he’s lukewarm about being a pilot altogether, and that ruined so much. I will say, when he mentioned expectations held by others that he’d be a great pilot, I felt like that was quasi breaking the fourth wall, that it was the viewers (like me) who were holding those expectations.

-The jab about his weight. Like the writers anticipated some of us would be questioning his redesign.

I was indifferent to his backstory. Of course DT is going to come up with their own version. Doesn’t specify but leaves you wondering if Baloo has passed on. And as Baloo apparently “founded” Higher for Hire, it’s conspicuous that there’s no mention of Rebecca, but we only have so much TV air time, so gotta keep the plot trimmed. If they were really concerned for air time, though, they could’ve cut Molly… but I’ll follow up my thoughts on that a bit later below.

What I didn’t like… ugh. I wish it were different, but I loathed this Kit. Prior to seeing the ep, I had already disliked his oafish, Baloo-ish redesign, and I have nothing against Adam Pally but wasn’t sure about his voice coming out of that character. But these concerns turned out to be peanuts. I wasn’t expecting how far they were going to change this character.

DT’s version of Kit says, paraphrasing, “I gave up on cloudsurfing, something I really loved, in order to be a pilot, something that I’m not good at at all.” Um… what? Kit lived and breathed flying. His ambition to fly was core to his character. How on earth could this fundamental characteristic have been neglected? What happened to, “I sleep it, I dream it, I think about it every ten seconds, at least!” I could totally go with him struggling with pressure to be as good as Baloo, but to stop trying? To be happier surfing? To say I was disappointed at the way Ducktales handled this is an understatement. Throughout the ep, it was wrenching and cringe inducing. Even putting it like that isn’t strong enough. I felt it was a betrayal to his character.

Then there was this emphasis on “sidekick.” And his doomed fate. Kit was the glue that held the Higher for Hire family together. I don’t think it was shown overtly in any particular incident on the show (one thing comes to mind in P&L, though, when it’s basically his vote whether or not to ditch H4H during the lightning gun attack), but without him connecting the dots between Baloo on one side and and Rebecca/Molly on the other, there’s really no family dynamic. Granted, in many eps he was in, he did not have a very meaningful role, but my point is that his role and meaningfulness is much more significant in TS lore than “sidekick.”

And this pervasive topic of being a sidekick, playing second banana to another, is his tragic fate in DT’s world.

Even bowing out to Dewey Duck. Dewey Duck… a kid… being… a better pilot... than Kit Cloudkicker. Pardon the abundant ellipses for effect but that is exactly how those words are being drawn out in my thoughts about this. Kit even seems to admit Dewey is a better pilot, saying his crowbar (autopilot) does most of the work. Dewey got to do the things that TaleSpin’s Kit, as a kid, would have given the world for. Dewey takes command of the plane while Kit tangles with the pirates on his board, and Kit’s just fine with it. It felt so out of character. This was like watching an adaptation of a fan fiction crossover where Dewey is the Mary Sue.

Not to mention, Della Duck kicks Kit out of his own cockpit, and they have him doormat for her instead of sticking up for himself. He is persistently hard to watch because he’s an unambitious loser clinging onto the memory of his cloud surfing youth. They swoon over his cloud surfing talent, and he puts down Karnage (comically), but the big feeling is he’s never really won at life. You get the feeling he's only been dumb and lazy. Flying a plane is just so-so, not his dream realized. He has no ambition to be a great pilot, he’d rather be cloudsuring like he did as a kid. And what a difference 24 minutes makes, he’s left unhappier, more loser-ish, at the end of the episode than when it started.

Which brings me to: even Molly is his superior, and at the end he’s doomed to be her cloudsurfing sidekick while she does the fancy flying. In this, they saved the worst for last. What a blow. Even Molly is to outshine Kit as a pilot. DT was probably just giving a nod to Baloo and Rebecca’s first meeting, but what a forced way to do it, and what a plot hole that Kit would be at all okay with this. Rebecca taking over the business from under Baloo’s nose was one thing; they were strangers. It was business, nothing personal. Molly and Kit presumably grew up together in this DT universe, with presumably a friend/sibling bond. It is so out of place that DT ignores how cruel this would be on Molly’s part… she’s known Kit since childhood, suddenly usurps his independence and livelihood, turns him into her employee, and...

[Imagine here, Kit staggering like a defeated character in the Mortal Kombat games, and the menacing voice on the screen commanding, “Finish him!”]

… demotes him from being a pilot to offer him as a cloudsurfing “attraction” in her air circus. Yikes. That’s… not something you do to someone you care about. Even if they weren’t particularly close (Kit greeting her “Molly Cunningham” kind of left an impression they’d grown apart), it’s still cutting. Oh! And apparently she’s an acclaimed daredevil (and has made some cash out of it, if she can afford to by Higher for Hire), so Kit, despite all his skilled cloudsurfing endeavors since childhood, gets upended in that department, too.

So yeah, a tragedy for Kit, unfortunately. Can’t think of a better way to put it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:18 am 
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Amen, brother! You said everything I wanted to say plus some.

It's the morning after, and I'm still reeling from the fact that they made a crowbar a better pilot than Kit. *shouts a la Rebecca*: A crowbar!!!

By the way, Kit, who was Baloo's conscience many times in the original show, would never turn out so careless. He wouldn't even borrow someone's pen and then lose it.

You're right, Brahms. Kit was never the sidekick. He was a major driver in a lot of episodes, especially P&L.

And now to work where I will try to forget this Twilight Zone-type episode.

Just...gah!


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:16 pm 
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Re: the crowbar, I'm reminded that back in the day of the High Flight board, there was joking that instead of watching Baloo use that thing to keep the plane steady, Kit might be interested in permenantly misplacing it someday. :)

One of the worst parts of the ep was him actually shouting at the crowbar do "do something" when the others needed rescue. Supposed to be funny for the viewer, but Kit was serious. He was hopelessly incompetent. TaleSpin's Kit is incredibly clever, I can't think of an instance where someone needed his help and he just couldn't jump into action.

I think the message was supposed to be "Kit is the best cloud surfer ever," but what was actually shown was, "Kit is ONLY good at cloud surfing," and a loser at everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:10 pm 
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Brahms wrote:
One of the worst parts of the ep was him actually shouting at the crowbar do "do something" when the others needed rescue. Supposed to be funny for the viewer, but Kit was serious. He was hopelessly incompetent. TaleSpin's Kit is incredibly clever, I can't think of an instance where someone needed his help and he just couldn't jump into action.


If Kit had been that incompetent in the original series, he wouldn't have made it on the street or with the air pirates.

Brahms wrote:
I think the message was supposed to be "Kit is the best cloud surfer ever," but what was actually shown was, "Kit is ONLY good at cloud surfing," and a loser at everything else.


They probably spun it that way - Kit is only good at cloud surfing - so that Dewey could have his moment to shine. It is Ducktales after all and Kit's the guest star while Dewey is one of the main characters.

Going along with that, I've been thinking about what you said about Kit being a sidekick. There weren't really sidekicks in TaleSpin. It was more like: "Which of Baloo's friends is going to have an adventure with him today?"


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:13 pm 
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Quick thinking would have been essential for his survival. Somehow I don't think Ducktales meant to compare their Kit to TaleSpin's other than being "Baloo's sidekick," and no further thought given to the background TaleSpin established. If the Ducktales Kit had had it rough as an orphan like TaleSpin's Kit, it just makes the ep even more tragic in how he turned out.

And you're right! Most eps paired Baloo with one of the others as a main partner in the adventure. I wonder if there were any conversations among the creative staff about needing to mix/rotate the main characters so they all got a certain amount of show time.

Ha, now I'm picturing the "partners" having a daily huddle, straws being drawn. "*sigh* All right... which one of teaming up with him today?" And Kit, drawing the short straw, "Dammit, again?" :)


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:38 pm 
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LOL! Drawing straws...

Kit: (holding the short straw and remembering just the previous day when he had almost been *insert crazy and/or dangerous experience here*) Uh...I can't today. I have, um, a test to study for. (shoves straw at Louie)

Louie: No way, Jose. My fur is still growing back from my last adventure with Fuzzy. (shoves straw at Rebecca)

Rebecca: Me? (drops straw like it's hot) You're not forcing this on me again! I went with him last week!

Kit: Last week? I went with him yesterday and the day before that. It's definitely your turn, Miz Cunningham.

Molly: Can I go with Baloo this time? Can I? Can I?

Rebecca: No!

While Kit, Louie, Rebecca, and Molly argue, Wildcat picks up the straw and looks it over quizzically.

Baloo (walking into Higher for Hire's office) All righty, who's flyin' with the Ace of the Skies today?

Kit, Louie, Rebecca immediately point to Wildcat.

Molly (pouting) Aw...


Last edited by Ann29 on Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:31 pm 
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That might explain a few eps. :)


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:26 pm 
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So, now that a week’s gone by, I had watched this thing once more today, see if maybe I had in any way a more positive reaction. And, noting some things I liked that I didn’t mention in my previous post:

The sign on the Sea Duck’s lavatory. LOL!
The bits of the TaleSpin theme in soft, orchestral music.
Hearing the name Kit Cloudkicker multiple times was pretty special.
In of itself, Kit being an incredible sky surfer as an adult is awesome.

But, nope, it gets me right in the feels what they made of him, and especially the “sidekick” ending. And somehow, as Kit being my fave character and wishing these last 30 years for him (hell, TaleSpin in general) to be brought back, it also just seems like my bad luck that this is what I get. XD Failing happens -- the things that are dreamed of when we're young can be broken by hard realities. It can be humbling, humiliating, life changing, and destroy your ambition, I get it. I just wish they had not made an example of this in Kit, of all characters, and so strikingly, and without a positive outcome. Right in the feels, in a bad way. Ducktales obviously had a moral they wanted to express, but what a pitiable way to do it. It could've been amazing, Ducktales.


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am 
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It's commendable that you gave this ep a second chance.

Yes, Ducktales had a moral, albeit a weak one, in "sticking to what you do best". (Not a great moral to be teaching kids, IMO.) But to make Kit Cloudkicker a lousy pilot in doing so?? It goes against the very core of his character.

Reboots in general don't seem to be a good thing. Props to the Animaniacs reboot for getting the original voice actors; some of the sketches were great, but, overall, the original spirit of the show was lacking. Different writers, different times.


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 Post subject: Re: "Buckle Up!" - Kit, The Lost Cargo of Kit Cloudkicker!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:12 pm 
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Related, saw this on twitter... looks like there were some ideas in the works to show Ducktales is, indeed, intended to be a continuation of TaleSpin's world. Baloo has disappeared? Don Karnage is not the "original" Don Karnage?

https://twitter.com/FrankAngones/status ... 6726187009 And oh, look... a link that's not being dropped by a bot! :p

I'll never consider the two series related, but I am curious what all they had in mind. :)


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