The boats in Balto

The boats in Balto


The boats in Balto that are docked in Nome bay


Hello all, first off, this is my first time posting on here so if I come out looking like a fool, I apologize.


 Ive watched Balto numerous times and the one thing above all that bugs me about the film is the boats that are docked at Nome bay. Now hear me out, I am not at all talking about Baltos boat far from town but the ones that are dry docked. The ones that Balto goes under, climbs the stairs, then jumps over the rest of the dogs when Balto is racing the other dogs to be on the sled team. Heres a shot of one of the boats in the background.Boats


They are of WOOD construction. I ask why? I have searched google under general boats, ice breakers, shipping, and fishing boats and have found nothing to correspond with wood boats in Nome in 1925. All the photos I did found were all of steel construction.


If Universal made the boats to 'fit the era', then they couldnt be more wrong. Remember, the Titanic was entirely of steel construction and was built, and sank, 13 years prior to Nome. I dont remember their being any WOODEN ships in the history books covering WW1, again, before 1925. I dont think the territory would be a factor, if anything, Nome was the first to see steel boats.


So there you have it, anyone have any more information they could bring to light? Any thoughts?


Thanks for your time!






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Guest
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January 30, 2010
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well is their a possibility that they did not have the steele resources they use SLED DOGS for transportation a small town like nome wouldn't have the money or time to build a large boat of historical reference but good artical and great catch one of the few where i havn't seen 30 different people write the same articlelol lol

November 24, 2008
Usa Is not currently on the site
Lone Wolf
I agree with the people that state, the probably old or something, or
the could be in use still, like a poor person's boat.

May 08, 2008
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
May I say something? That's why they were BEACHED. They were old and
of no use, most likely about to be turned into toothpicks. Otherwise,
why would they be so close to the town, obviously in the shallows of
whatever ocean they were in?

June 25, 2007
Usa Is not currently on the site
One thing, when the telegramer was typing to other places,
Ancorage (did I spell it right?) and it showed that they
couldn't get by plane or ship nor train, you could tell the
ship was made of steel. Anyway, wood boats looked much
better with the back ground, try and imagine steel boats in
there, I don't think it'd look right.

April 13, 2007
Uk Female Is not currently on the site
I saw that too.

March 11, 2007
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Mabey those were old boats left there to never be used
again. Or mabey there fishermen boats. They probally can't
afford steel boats.

Guest
Guest
February 03, 2007
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Wow! I am a fan of old things and I knew that even before I
watched Balto, the thing is I never even noticed it! I was
too engulfed in the movie itself. Good research!!!

November 27, 2006
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
Good Article! I never would have dawned upon that if you
never mentioned that! Lol I am pretty stupid to never notice
that! ::

Guest
Guest
August 26, 2006
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Well, actually balto _claw, as both Railwolf and I did point out, wooden AND steel boats existed at the time. And both were to be seen in and around Nome in 1925. :)

Guest
Guest
August 26, 2006
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You are right there. The boats should of bean metal. Them animators are so lazy.

Guest
Guest
August 24, 2006
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LOL ░x░ lol

Guest
Guest
August 23, 2006
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Yah...stuped spellcheck. Changed "Trawlers" to "Twirlers."lol

Guest
Guest
August 23, 2006
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One thing though, Railwolf. In your first comment (above), you said: "The boats should rightly be of wood construction. They are called fishing twirlers." Did you mean "fishing trawlers"? Heh heh... :p

Guest
Guest
August 21, 2006
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Exactly:)

Guest
Guest
August 21, 2006
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Well, granted...about the question of wooden ships. However, there were two points of contention here...one was the question of whether or not wooden ships existed in 1925 (and I agree with you on your take). But I was discussing with you the question of whether or not ice could form on deep bodies of water. Remember that even stormy waters like the Great Lakes are not always storm-tossed. Sometimes they are calm. Or at least relatively quiescent. The same with the turbulent waters of the Pacific Northwest (especially closer to land). For my part, I'll take direct accounts of people who were there at the time over a modern-day documentary or book. And after all, every body of water is different, and reacts differently to the weather. You're also talking about a substantially different latitude with the Great Lakes, as opposed to either Norton Sound or the North Atlantic. So on this, we should be resolved. And on the question of types of shipping? Yes, as you said, there were indeed metal AND wooden ships and boats in use in the area in 1925.

Guest
Guest
August 21, 2006
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But acording to Deep Sea Detectives episode 9 seson 3: Great Lakes Ghost Ship Ice can not form more then a few miles outside land on a storm driven waters.
This was one of the therys of the sinking of the Cornuiles B Windeate. (whitch I have mentioned a few times in past posts) Ice forming on the sea and locking the ship in intulle she sank. Now in certen conditions Ice froms on moveing objects (ships, trains, plains) Large chunks of cie DO NOT form at sea. The surface can freeze yes, but objects shuch as feld ice (whitch braks away from melting icebergs) and icebergs form via braking off glacers. In fact the Iceberg that Sank the Titanic is sead to have started forming in the last iceage.
But getting back to the point.
The point is not whether or not the Norten sound can comepletly freeze over, but whther or not wooden ship's exicted in 1925. Yes it is a bad practice to more ship's in ice. and both the RLS Endvear and SS Cornuiles B Wendate have proven. and that ice is a hazerd to shiping as RMS Titanic and the SS Arizona have proven.
Point is that yes wooden ship's do exist in Alaska Cerca 1925, and were still in use up to WW1 and even in WW2.

Guest
Guest
August 21, 2006
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You might want to read the accounts again...not only of surviving passengers, but also of crew members of the various ships, and of nautical experts. "Field ice" is a separate entity from icebergs. I am aware of the fact that most of them formed from breakage of glaciers in and around Greenland. But field ice is a covering of ice over the surface of the water. That area was full of field ice. Just as the surface of much of Norton Sound freezes over (much thicker, even) during the cold months. Anyone who lives in the area could confirm that fact. And here's more proof: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/nomeair.jpg. Look closely at the image...those tracks are on the surface of Norton Sound. Out away from the shore. Even Leonhard Seppala took his team (Togos team) out on the sound when they were racing back to Nome...in order to save time and distance. To compare with the last photo, here is a warm-weather shot of Nome, showing the area when the water is not frozen over: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/nome1.jpg. Even this water, close to land, is subject not only to rough tides, but sometimes even storms. And there are times when the storm winds themselves, with the help of the churned up surf, can hurl great sheets of this sea ice from the sound onto the beach and roadways of the area (called an "ivu event" ). Take a look at these pics (including the last shot, which is broken-up chunks of sea ice taken from Norton Sound looking back towards Nome): http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/ivu1.jpg , http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/ivu2.jpg , http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/ivu3.jpg . If you want to see how rough the Norton Sound is, with its great swells of surf, in the winter months, just look at the Nome Convention and Visitors Bureau webcam at those times, or look at the information on Nome and the area for that time of year. The sound gets dangerously rough. And still, ice forms in thick sheets. If it can do that in shallow, rough surf, it can certainly do it in deeper water. And it has (as you even admitted it could). Why else would the lookouts of the Titanic and Californian report that the North Atlantic (where they found themselves) was "as smooth as a mill pond", with "no waves breaking at the bases of any bergs"? The water, according to accounts from the Carpathia, didn't start to churn up again until the next morning, when Carpathia was pulling in survivors. By then, there had been substantial drift from the location in which Titanic foundered. No one has suggested that the entire Bering Sea freezes over. However, much of Norton Sound does...and parts of the Bering Sea do. Still, I don't see that Balto Tracer was saying that the ships couldn't navigate the Bering Sea. He was saying that ships couldn't bring supplies in through the ice. And that is true. Some simply didn't sail into the area when the sound was frozen over. Others...local boats, were probably careened on shore, as you suggested, or perhaps even moored in the water and then overcome by ice (which I am certain would be a bad practice with either a wooden or a metal vessel).

Guest
Guest
August 21, 2006
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correct. you didn't get what I was saying....
Titanic ran into what is commenly called the North Atlantic Ice Range. This is were icebergs float in the curent down south till they melt. The bergs were created from a glacer in greenland, they did not form out at sea. And they were Iceburgs....Not a sheet of ice. Yes Ice can form in deep water....but a large object like the bering strat can not completly freeze over. A ship there for can not get stuck in ice far out at sea...yes the Norten sound can freeze over, I sead that befor. That is why ships are pulled out and "layed over for winter"

Guest
Guest
August 20, 2006
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Railwolf...ice can definitely form out on the deep water. Take a look at the conditions faced by the Titanic in 1912. They hit a huge area of field ice...that had actually covered the surface of the water. It caused the Californian to stop dead for the night when they hit the area (that plus the fear of icebergs). And it was enough to cut the Californian's distance meter (I don't recall the name of this, but at the time they were dragged behind ships by cable, and measured distance traveled). The reports from the Californian were that the ice had actually CUT that cable. And in that area of the north Atlantic, water averages a mile or so deep. As to Nome, the area of Norton Sound is known to freeze over, down several feet apparently, in the winter.

Guest
Guest
August 20, 2006
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actualy ice does not form on the deep sea becuse the water is always in motion. Most ship would be worryed about iceing up out there. (when ice forms on ship via spray.) Ice adds waight above water but adds byincy under...so a ship can not actualy be sunk by ice but rather shoved under or capsised. In fact there is a recorded case of a wooden sailing ship, the Cornilius B Windeate, not just being shoved under by ice but bobing underwtaer like an ice cube in a glass of water for hours. the construction materals of the ship would not matter much when it comes to ice.

August 17, 2006
Usa Male Is not currently on the site
Thanks all for the info. Boats arnt really my thing but wood boats in 1925 had me wondering.
Thanks for answering my question.

Guest
Guest
August 16, 2006
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fo curse, I'm mostly pulling this of of ewhat they would do in great Lake shipping, and laying over for winter was soemthing that was done in 1886. (recurds can be found via the sinking of the Coirniles B Windeate (SP)) So I'm just takeing an educated guess on maraner practises

Guest
Guest
August 16, 2006
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An interesting thought, Railwolf! Well said. It is possible. I have just seen no photographic or descriptive accounts of such a practice in Nome that early in its history. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. ;)

Guest
Guest
August 16, 2006
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its called laying over for winter. They would do the same thing on the great lakes.
you see when winter rolled around Nome's harbor would freeze, making storing any kind of ship in the harbor danguris as the vessels might be crushed.
so rather then leve them exposed, the ships were huled up on land. there they were stripped covered and prepared for winter....
when spring rolled back around and the ice thawed the ships would be sled back in the water.

Guest
Guest
August 15, 2006
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I'd have to agree, mostly, with Railwolf here (excellent research, dude!). In fact, most of the "ships" which visited Nome were steam ships of one kind or another. Some were probably steel, others were likely older wooden vessels. And there were all manner of fishing vessels in the area at the time.

What I think is odd is to see them parked right up on the beach (whether or not in "dry dock" ). To my knowledge, Nome had no dry dock, nor any natural harbor (at the time; there is a spit of land which helps form the entry point to the Snake River, west of town, but it appears this was not used then. It most certainly is now). However, it appears some wooden docks were constructed in the early 1900s. Here is a link to a photo of a panoramic image of Nome, taken in 1908: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/6a00450r.jpg. Certainly, by 1925, these docks would still have been in use...perhaps even expanded. And yet, in a panoramic image taken of Nome in October of 1899, those docks are not present (which means boats and ships had to anchor off-shore, and people & supplies had to be tendered back and forth by smaller boats): http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/JerseyCaptain/6a00428r.jpg.

Though the cartoon image doesn't show a dock at all. It shows a boat run right up onto the beach, apparently. GOOD WORK, though, Dragonwolf! :)

Guest
Guest
August 15, 2006
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Oh god, they erased my explanation...
The boats should rightly be of wood construction. They are called fishing twirlers. These are not freighters like the one that tried to deliver the antitoxin. Back in 1925 it was much easer to build fishing ship out of the much readably availably wood then ship out for steel. In fact wood construction is still used in ships today. As for the records, well. There are recorded cases including film of German U-boats sinking wooden sailing ships in WW1. Remember that these ships are not meant to go far out to sea. They plod around the off shore fishing grounds. The ships Balto runs by are being lied up for winter. As for Titanic being of all steel construction. That too is not true. The bridge, wheelhouse, decking, bracing, most interior walls, and of curse the grand staircase was made of wood. Even today, wood is a necessary inclusion in ships. Mettle ships in Nome actually would be out of place. As they should be still out at sea. I made this point before but apparently the website deleted it lol

August 15, 2006
Uk Female Is not currently on the site
The animators are SOOOO bloody lazy :o AWESOME ARTICLE!!!:o :P

Guest
Guest
August 15, 2006
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Wow, good thinking! I would have never thought of that. I was just pondering if they were so old that when it was made, people didn't make boats with steel. IDK. Maybe you have a correction for that?

Guest
Guest
August 19, 2006
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steel was hard to transport to the ends of the earth at the time, and it was quite expensive. That's why they had a wood carver, he was specialized in wood stuff. It was hard to advance things back then, and especially there. They were wooden boats, becasue they were used for "close-to-shore" stuff rather than trying to break through deep sea ice. They didn't have to worry about that. Also, wood was more readily available, and they could make ships quite fast, only with wood. this way they could still carry out the daily jobs, and not have to wait for shipments of steel and ore to come in. they would also build boats in the winter time, when they were mostly out of the water, and most ships wouldn't be able to break the ice to bring the shipments needed. That's why they are wooden boats! ^^ :P ;) Good artical though, i see where you are going.




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