This is one of the most pressing debates on this site, and relating to the Lion King in general.

In Disney's original motion picture, the cub shown at the end of the film, ('fluffy' if you will) is later identified as Kopa in the Lion King Six New Adventures, is apparently replaced or displaced by the cub existing in the motion picture sequel, Simba's Pride, Kiara.

This falls under the category of 'Two cubs can not occupy the same space'.

Disney's position is that fluffy at the end of the original movie is Kiara, but try convincing the fans of that.

Many people point out that the birth scene at the end of the first movie is totally different than the one that takes place at the beginning of the second film. I for one, believe this is true.

Here is where the everyone else's theories can be left behind. Kopa fans rejoice! Both Kiara and Kopa exist. Just at different times. Many think that due to the order of the two scenes, Kopa was first born, and that because he is not in the second film, he either ran away, or got killed. For my theory to present itself, change one fact. KIARA was first born.

Now what are we left with? If Kopa was not in the second film, and was not born first, but definitely does exist, what is deduced? Quite simply, Kopa was born after the events of the second film. Here is my proof.

In the scene at the end of the first movie, there is a great gathering of animals. Out numbering the number of animals seen in the second film. Based on the events of the first film, we can assume that most of the animals in the pridelands (under Scar's reign) were either killed or they moved away. And as I saw no evidence that they all had instant email accounts or cell phones with text messaging, there is almost no way such an amount could resettle the pridelands before the accepted time of Simba and Nala's first child- Kiara (evidence being the age relation of Vitani and Kovu plus if you believe the theory that the cub was indeed conceived when Simba and Nala first met in the jungle ;) winkwink).

Pause here if you're lost.

The only way would be some other form of courier, and a Devine one at that, such as the particles that flew through the lands in the start of the second film - later identified as Mufasa - could have carried it. So directly after Simba took back control of the pridelands, he exiles Zira and the others still loyal to Scar; he kicks out the hyenas; he finds out his new wife is pregnant; The vegetation grows back. etc but it is a big surprise to him that hordes of animals return on the day of Kiara's birth. Who informed them that Scar was gone? Or could they just have instinctively known that the good king had returned? Or could the apparition in the sky witnessing the presentation of the new cub have had something to do with it? I don't know. But the evidence leads me to assume that this event took place closer to the events of the climax of the first film.

Take a deep breath in, and let it out.

Thus does the turmoil of the second film take place (outlanders, plots and war) Turmoil that is nonexistent in any authentic story of Kopa's childhood. Hinting that if both occurred, the turmoil would have had to been resolved. So it is logical that Kopa's birth took place after the events of the second film.

In conclusion, Kopa was real, Kiara was real, Kiara was born first and the events at the very end of the first film are bumped to a much later date, encompassing the entire Lion King story (in the films), and completing the circle of life.

(Scene from the Lion King Two showing Mufasa's ghost and the prideland animals migrating back)

I hope everyone accepts this theory, hope Kopa fans enjoy it. Please take the time to comment.

Similar articles :

• Careless Problems with the second movie
• The Confusion Of Zira's Cubs
• Confusion with Zira's cubs
• Nala & Vitani - relation and more
• The Eternal Question
• Nala's Father
• Mheetu
• Who is Nala's father?
• Who was Kovu's mother?
• Cub Confusion

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Last comments

Takaobse rver	March 10, 2010

Cobaltié: One of the backbones in the theory is that there is no mention of Kopa in the Lion King II, as he is born after those events had resolved... although it is true that the first movie and the second movie do not actually overlap, it is a fun idea.

Cobaltié	March 10, 2010

It doesn't make sense for the end of TLK and start of TLK2 to overlap, although your theory does have some points to it. Plus, TLK2 makes no mention of Kopa at all, not even a cameo, so that doesn't make sense either with your theory.

TheLionK ingLover	January 19, 2010

love the theory, but i'm still gonna stick to my (and others) opinion that zira killed him to get that out of the way for making kovu king.

Mheetu_l ovr97	December 28, 2009

Hi, This is a great theory! I think it makes a lot of sense and erases the whole horrible concept of Kopa being killed by Zira or the like. I do not believe that is a good thought to hold in your mind, besides the fact that it's simply not logical. I mean, if Kopa was the firstborn, then why did Simba not seem sad in TLK2? And why didn't they ever mention him in it? It wouldn't make any sense at all. Also, I have read numerous copies of TLK books, and it says in each one that Kiara was born at the end of The Lion King, not Kopa. Thank you for sharing this theory with everyone. I think we all believe that this is the correct concept of Kopa's birth.

Kopa23	December 15, 2009
	None

I have the same theory too, but with a different reason: The Outsiders are nowhere to be found in the books. Kovu and Kiara probably started their own pride, since neither of them were carable of becoming king and queen, or so I think. (Kiara doesn't want to be queen, and Kovu doesn't know about that blah blah) This is a pretty good theory. I was confused for a moment, but still. What doesn't make sense through, is why nobody mentions the Outsiders and Kiara in the books.

Juuchan1 7	December 08, 2009

Hmm, that is an interesting theory. I do believe that both Kiara and Kopa existed at the same time, but I'm obviously a fan of the "Kopa was born first" crowd of theorists. You make a good point about the number of animals present at the end of the first movie (where "Fluffy"/Kopa is presented to the animals) compared to those in the beginning of SP when Kiara is presented. Yet now that I think about it . . . your theory makes sense. Kiara has to have been born first because of Simba's rather . . . er, obvious overprotection of his daughter. Naturally in sequels, the daughters seems to be more protected than sons . . . and I've read the 6NA series, so I know Kopa isn't as protected as Kiara was in SP. Still, good theory and great article! I'm surprised I hadn't read this sooner!

Sofiel	December 04, 2009
	Criminal Minds BAU

I for one even tho i love kopa go with the theme he was never ment to exsist and Zira didn't kill him its a nice theory tho, the thing is disney screwed up made two cubs and then threw one out, Kopa doesn;t exsit anymore they replaced him with Kiara, for the sake of the films the old books are dead to siney now so the focused more on the movies. here are some links that i think may help. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_zira_kill_kopa_in_the_lion_king_books http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090211114052AAgwaWz< br />

Kohaku Zero	November 21, 2009
	Fanfic mod, Articles mod, Questions mod,...
	TLK MOD.

Beth: No it's not. They tried to erase Kopa's information. When they made Kiara. I still think Kopa was born before Kiara, because of the books, that were made before TLK2. Great article, has lots of information.

Bethanyp 99	November 15, 2009

Kopa was born and about at a month old he got killed by zira its a proven fact

Ladyxbug	November 13, 2009

...can we say that this have been disproven by books produced under the Lion King before Lion King 2 ever existed. In the childbook distributed after the movie (like all Disney classics of the time), at the end, the claimed the cub to be a boy. Followed by that book later came The Lion King: Six New Adventures, which starred Kopa. Since the last book claimed it was a son, Kopa was Simba's cub of The Six New Adventures showing the history of fellow TLK characters. All of this was made before Lion King 2 was ever thought about dissproving that Kopa was the second cub. It's more logical to have his birth before Kiara, which would explain Simba's excessive protective parternal instincts with Kiara. Another disaster had to occur before Kiara for Rafiki to say "the circle of life is restored again," during TLK 2. This heightened the possibility of hints towards Kopa's possible death for fans. Zazu called the Outsiders "murderous" in TLK 2 when Kiara first came encounter with one Kovu. I doubt they would call them murderous for killing fellow animals, since lions...need to eat. It may be considered murder if a lion killed a fellow lion like what Scar did to Mufasa, which was highly frowned upon along with the fact that he lied and was the worse king ever. Yes there are differences in cubs' pelt color, but it's clear that Disney company made mistakes like how Simba's nose is noticeably pink in the 2nd film and Sarabi with different eye color and so on. In short, within the eye of the beholder, Kopa can exist, but with subtle hints in the film it have to be before Kiara's birth making her the second cub.

Cherub	November 08, 2009

Wow, congrats on getting into the picks of the week, on your second article too!

Takaobse rver	November 03, 2009

It could also be argued that as Simba was a more cautious father for Kiara, it was probably his first experience as a parent. As in the case of Kopa, Simba seems to be much more at ease in the role. Thus further deducing that Kopa may have been born after.

Cherub	October 29, 2009

it's not too confusing. I get it! cool article good theory, though I still like the idea that Zira killed Kopa and thats why Simba exiled her and the others

Seth2208	October 16, 2009

Great article, and very good theory. I actually thought about idea of Kopa being born after Kiara, but did not give it deeper thought like you. After all I really wondered what happened to him after I saw Kiara in second movie. Spent hours on internet gathering data about that(came across many supose to be that cub names either from development or somewhere else: Fluffy, Tanabi, Kopa, Naba, Chaka, Shani(this was first name and appearance of female cub in development), Aisha, Neopet, Nunka and finally Kiara) and many stories about what happened to Kopa. And this is only theory not changing what was made and said from Disney. Even though I still do not want too entirely agree, cub at the end of TLK is not Kiara, there are too many differences... But I understand why they changed that.