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Cub Confusion

Who's related to who in TLK 2?


lioness017 :



I know that there have been others who have writen an article about this but I have yet to find one that actually makes sense and more importantly, one that contains accurate information.


 

So to start off, I will explain the situation at hand.  The most popular belief for Zira's cubs is that they're all her biological children just with different fathers.  There is debate whether Nuka is Scar's blood son because of his age and appearance, but because he doesn't encourage this as one of his main arguments for becoming king, this theory has been heavily questioned (see Mahewa's article Nuka's Father for more information).  It is said that Vitani is Scar's daughter but agewise, she doesn't appear to be.  Another theory is that she is Kovu's litter mate/twin sister, but Zira specifically says that Kovu "was the last born", resulting in once again, confusion among fans (unless Vitani is the older twin).  Lastly, the animators clearly say that Kovu is not related to Scar whatsoever, however he was apparently born during Scar's reign as it states in the movie that Kovu was adopted and hand chosen by Scar to become the heir to the throne, but this couldn't be possible as this would make him an adult by the time Kiara was born. 


 

Most of these mistakes were resulted in the animators inaccurate timeline, the rest however, still remains shrouded in mystery. 

Now moving onto my opinion.
 

I support those who think that Kovu and Vitani are twins, but I disagree with the fact that they are Zira's biological children.  Most people might respond to this with "wikipedia clearly states that they are her children", or "in the song My Lullaby, she calls Kovu 'my son' and 'my little kovu'".  Dear readers, wikipedia is not the most accurate site out there, AND if Scar really did adopted Kovu like everyone says he did then of course Zira will call him "son".  Anyways, Vitani on the other hand, bares a strong resemblance to Zira as an adult so she MUST be her daughter right? Wrong.  If you haven't noticed, most of the lioness' in Zira's pride kind of look the same, so I think Vitani was the daughter of another outlander lion who possibly, abandoned the two cubs or, died of some unknown circumstance and left her children in the care of Zira, afterall, the hyenas pretty much destroyed the Pridelands under Scar's rule so it's possible that their mother couldv'e died of starvation.  By the way, I think I should also point out that at the very end of the movie, Vitani is the first one to realize that they are "one" and crosses over to Simba's side, Zira says "if you will not fight, then you will die as well.".  Why would Zira say that to her own daughter? ESPECIALLY if she were Scar's cub too. But even so, she did prove to be able to show affection for her cubs in a few rare occasions (e.g. Nuka's death), so I find it out of character that Zira would've threated her own "daughter" with her life.  Now, Nuka, is a lot harder to argue about, he doesn't ever make a referrance to Scar being his father, but he looks just like him and he appears like he could've been born in Scar's reign, that's what seems to be throwing everyone off.  However, Nuka appears have drank out of the Fountain of Youth since he never ages throughout the movie, so he either looks a lot younger that he really is or he's immortal, (that's the best I can come up with haha).  I really don't know what to think of him yet, just that it's a strong possibility that he's Zira and Scar's biological son, perhaps Scar didn't give him much attention and therefore Zira thinks that Nuka isn't worth her time either, it would make sense that Scar didn't choose him as the next future king, I mean look at him... he's kind of.. well... how to explain it... stupid.


 

And that concludes my first article, thanks for hanging in there, I know it was long but as you can see, I had a lot to say. 





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Last comments

Blue Eyes
Blue
Eyes
September 30, 2012
Is not currently on the site
I like your theory, but what about this:

If Zira just FOUND them, and the two twins were exactly the same size, then how would she know Kovu was the last born? Them being left in Zira's care makes much more sense.

Scar's cub.
Scar's
cub.
July 30, 2012
Is not currently on the site
Ah, that was a good article. mentioned a lot of things none of us could think of!
My theory is that Nuka is Scar and Zira's child, but when Scar cast him aside as useless, so did Zira.

I think, for Vitani, that her father IS scar. My thoughts: Scar, being king at the time, could have mated with any lionesses he wanted. When Nala/tam/Kula/any others? grew up, Scar thought that, since they were strong and beautiful, they would produce him a good-looking, healthy son. he picked one at random - Tama. The two mated, and Tama later turned out to be pregnant with Scar's cub - then Vitani was born. But Scar sid she couldn't be heir because she was female.
At the time, Tama was very ill, so she begged Zira to take in Vitani as her own before she died. Zira eventually agreed, since she and Tama had always gotten along and because of Vitani's father.
But Tama survived - I'll get to that.

Kovu - a few days after Vitani was born, Zira was out hunting, when she heard some crying. Se went to look and saw a tiny baby boy, barely a day old, who was lying next to a dead lioness (who ahd died giving birth to him).
Zira noticed the cub looked like Scar and was healthy, so she took kovu in and was able to nurse him. Scar was pleased/thrilled and selected the baby as his heir. Then the two raised Kovu (and Vitani) together.

Now, I know what you are thinking for Vitani. "NO BLUE EYES! DIFFERENT UNIVERSE!" But you seem to forget two teeny, tiny, little hings. Traits can be inherited by grandparents! And Scar, Vitani and Zira appeared in books too - meaning that they appeared in the book AND movie universe.

tht is just my theory, but your theory is brilliant too.

May 13, 2012
Australia Is not currently on the site
If kovu And. Vitani were twins, I would say vitani as the older one as she seems to rank him as such, take 'that's my lullaby' for example, vitani is stating in her words that she is older, ranking him younger than herself . And how she says to nuka 'mother told you to watch him!' states that she is looking out for kovu and telling nuka orders and stuff, Soz if it's a bit confusing ^^

May 13, 2012
Is not currently on the site
well you do have a point about well a lot of things....

alisha
Alisha
March 30, 2012
Is not currently on the site
Vitani`s parents are Tojo and Tama. Kovu`s parents are Chumvi and Kula. It really kind of makes sense because Tojo has Vitani`s blue eyes and Tama has a tuft of hair on her head just like Vitani. Chumvi and Kula have the same colors as Kovu. Nuka`s parents are Zira and Scar. Nuka has Zira`s eyes and Scars mane color.

February 15, 2012
Australia Female Is not currently on the site
Hidden Souls
Kovu King: That is FANFICTION

January 02, 2012
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
@TLKfan#1 -- Vitani was the one adopted. she's Tama and Tojo's and Kovu and Tania weren't from the same litter Kovu's youngest he is Zira's and Chumvi's.

There is no evidence to what you have said. There is no official answer. These are just fan based opinions. They are not absolute truth. So, please, stop spewing these things as if they are truth when they are not.

TLKfan#1
TLKfan#1
January 02, 2012
Is not currently on the site
Vitani was the one adopted. she's Tama and Tojo's and Kovu and Tania weren't from the same litter Kovu's youngest he is Zira's and Chumvi's

Outcast3d
Outcast3
d
December 07, 2011
Is not currently on the site
The only thing I disagree with in this article is the age thing. Thinking if whoever the real mother of Vitani and Kovu are got pregnant towards the very end of Scar's reign and Nala getting pregnant right after Simba took over then factoring in the time of pregnany and the fact that the movies are timed back to back I think the ages do fit for the story. And I think Nuka does age but because of him being malnourished there isn't much of a physical difference. His features lack but the build of his body is slightly more bulkish. Other than that this is the best article I've been able to find on the subject.

SheikUtenaFanel
SheikUte
naFanel
October 17, 2011
Is not currently on the site
What is interesting to point out is that maybe Scar did not pick Nuka because he was the oldest. Scar is younger than Mufasa and was not chosen to be king for those reasons (we are left to assume). So perhaps Scar chose Kovu not because there was potential in Kovu or that Nuka was incompetent, but because Kovu was the youngest just like himself who was denied the title of king. Its also quite possible that because of this, Kovu was not born yet when Scar decided this. "Kovu was the last born before you exiled us to the outlands" this could have been after Scar died.

As for Nuka's age, I believe he was a teenager in the beginning of the film, and then during the 'timejump' he became an adult. His mane just never fully grew out because he's constantly itching himself to death.

I still think that Zira is the mother of all three Nuka, Vitani and Kovu. She was never the best mother throughout the movie, and just because she made a death threat to Vitani doesn't make her the mother any less. She was rough with all three of them...and I'm sure she loved them too (Like her mourning Nuka) but she loved Scar and his ideals more.

August 11, 2011
Usa Is not currently on the site
actually not to be rude but this is what i think:
i think nuka really is scars biological son because when nuka was talking to vitani when nuka had left kovu alone he said: " kovu kovu kovu, scar wasnt even his father" vitani: " nuka did u leave kovu out on his own again? mothers gonna be mad she told you to watch him!" nuka: (something like this) kovus the chosen one he needs to learn how to be on his own i could have been the chosen one im the biggest the oldest the strongest i could be a leader if shed just give me a chance!" and i agree that vitani's mother died so she was left with zira.
but another thing zira had alot of children with different males so i believe kovu is ziras son but not scars. and maybe she was so in love with scar whatever he said she agreed with so that made kovu her favorite.
and since she was busy loving and teaching kovu the evil ways of killing simba she forgot about nuka and vitani so nuka was being a man and wanted to prove to his mother that he was a man(u know grown up, mature) but vitani never being as mean as nuka and her family she was the first of the outlanders to figure out they were "one" so through all those years she turned to love vitani less and less so she probably didnt care if she died especially if she was not blood related to zira.
and as you said kovu would be an adult by the time kiara was born that is a possibility but it could also be kovu was just born before scar died and was chosen by scar really close to the death of scar and then in the movie it showed kovu oldest first so maybe kovu is older than kiara by nine months to a year.
so as you said kovu was either immortal or drank out of the fountain of youth well if you look closely at nuka when kovu and vitani are cubs and when nuka is trying to catch simba in the river up the logs when he is chasing simba nuka has more hair and is larger. so that means he had grown.

nobody in particular
Nobody
in
particul
ar
July 12, 2011
Is not currently on the site
Well now, what could be clearer? I am in total agreement:P lioness jhr!! Finally, something that just goes by the movie and not opinions!!

lioness jhr
Lioness
jhr
June 04, 2011
Is not currently on the site
Zira probably wouldn't have Vitani around if she wasn't her biological mother, because Zira didn't need a girl around, so Zira wouldn't accept Vitani if she didn't need to. So, Zira is Vitani's mum/mom. :! As for Kovu, thats a lot harder, all I might want to say is: Kovu actually shares a lot of features with Zira eg. small sharp "outlander nose", coloured paws etc... So, Zira IS Kovu's mother!!! :!

October 23, 2010
Is not currently on the site
Zira is as old as Scar, maybe only a bit younger. She can't be Simba's age. Yeah, Zira even said, "It's over Simba! I have dreamed of nothing else for YEARS." So she had to be consumed by hate and revenge.

September 15, 2010
Is not currently on the site
I think Zira is born at the same time Simba was, because it seems they are the same age. (Random...)

Anyways, I also think Zira is the true mother of Kovu, but we all have our opinions. In the song "My Lullaby", would Zira lick someone else's cub if it weren't hers? Well, that's just my opinion.

I personally think Nuka was an adolescent at the time Kovu was a cub, making him an adult when Kovu was an adult as well.

What am I talking about? This might be out of topic, but I was just pointing out the 'immortal Nuka' part and such. (BTW: If Nuka was immortal he wouldn't be dead right now. Lol.)

May 05, 2010
Usa Is not currently on the site
definetley see where you're coming from. in my opinion, i sorta figured that if Kovu hadn't been born, Nuka would have been kking, and, most likely, make still have become king except for how weak he seemed. my guess is that, while Kovu was NOT scars actual son, he was stronger and less likley to die in the fight that would, of course, result. but i do like your theory

April 24, 2010
Usa Is not currently on the site
Mahewa:: Yeah, I see where you're coming from. But then again, whu shouldn't Nuka be Scar's son? Everyone says he is, even the movie makers, so why stress that? I'm not degrading your article (I'm a huge fan of it! :p ) but what I'm saying is that you can come up with thousands upon thousands of theories of who's related to who and it'll usually always come out confusing and/or complicated, there are just too many plot holes to ignore, kids movie or not. I have a feeling that the makers just left the movie how it was and said: "ehh, let the fans decide." only to realize that this was a very confusing movie to begin with. Whether anything is "straightforward" is up to you. I stand by what I said and feel that the two cubs were adopted but if other people say that they were her real children then who am I to argue?

April 23, 2010
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
Oh, my... somebody referenced my article! *sparkly grateful anime eyes*

While your theory of Vitani originally being another's child is perfectly plausible, I ask you this: why make it more complicated? Your only real argument against Vitani being Zira's is that Zira threatened her near the end of the movie. I personally think that Zira had just lost it by then. She mourned for Nuka because he was dear to her and she finally realized he'd been eager to please her. But Vitani actually betrayed Zira's core beliefs! No wonder the ol' gal was ticked.

Back to what I was saying, even though your theory is perfectly possible, it just seems a diversion from the most straightforward theory for no real reason. I prefer to go with the straightforward: Vitani is Zira's daughter.

February 13, 2010
Uk Is not currently on the site
TheLionKingLover: From what I've heard in fanfics and such, Zira isn't Scar's age. She was in her teenage years when Scar became king, and probably had her cubs (mainly Nuka) quite young. Having teenage mothers in royalty wasn't an uncommon thing, especially in medeval England.

January 18, 2010
Usa Female Is not currently on the site
Harry Potter FTW
That's almost always boggling my mind. Zira should be Scar's age, making Kovu Simba's age, right? IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING! Who is in who's bloodline? Is Kovu supposed to be Simba's age? Is Nuka Scar's true son? Agh, questions, questions!

January 11, 2010
Uk Is not currently on the site
Yeah, that's a pretty good theory, even if I disagree with some points. I still believe that all are Zira's cubs, and some mothers can just act like that towards their young. I mean if they didn't, then child abuse wouldn't be happening in the world. And I also say that Nuka is Scar's son, since he's the right age and looks a lot like him. He just wasn't chosen because...well...look at him. And this would also explain his jealous attitude towards Kovu. Oh, and he does grow a bit. If you notice, his mane is just a line down his back earlier on, and then it completely covers his neck later in the film.

And in my opinion, Vitani appears to be a couple of months older than Kovu. And she also acts older. I do have a theory on why they look the same age, and you can read about it in my artical 'The Confusion Of Zira's Cubs'.

But I guess we'll never get a real answer. Unless Disney writes a book about it (kind of like Wicked).

November 15, 2009
Slovenia Male Is not currently on the site
Nice article, well one of those kind nobody can actually disagree with. And we probably will never get real answer, so all we are left are theories, some more accurate than others. I personally never gave it much thought, I always took Zira to be mother of three.
I agree, Wikipedia can be far from accurate source, all articles are written by people all over the world, so all should be taken with good measure of skepticism, you never know who has written it and how accurate it is. But it makes good source t get some basic information and links to related sites.
Only thing I would have to add is about Zira threating her daughter, she was totally mad with hate, she problem was just blinded by hate, ready to kill anyone who is going to get in the way. As easily as she did not pay attention to Nuka, she did that. She practically lived for hate and revenge, no matter who would stood in her way, she would just take him for an enemy.

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